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Ubuntu Developers Discuss Again About Dropping Support For 32-bit x86

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  • chithanh
    replied
    Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
    Uh, they rarely do. I called them idiots for a reason.
    It's hard to blame them if Microsoft themselves don't do it better:
    Apps and software that come with your Surface use a significant amount of the disk space on your Surface. Find out how much storage is available for your photos, music, videos, and other files on the different Surface models. Learn how to add more storage space.


    And yes, there are some devices on the market which use the possible space savings (e.g. HP Stream 7)

    Leave a comment:


  • starshipeleven
    replied
    Originally posted by chithanh View Post
    Even if the OEM uses all the space saving that is possible...
    Uh, they rarely do. I called them idiots for a reason.

    I still get called wizard when I magically recover 10-ish GB by nuking the crapware-ridden and useless recovery partition from costumer's 2-in-1s.

    Microsoft couldn't be bothered
    Yeah, I just wanted to say they can certainly do it.

    Leave a comment:


  • chithanh
    replied
    Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
    When a recovery partition eats up to 8 GB permanently because the OEM is an idiot, yeah.
    Even if the OEM uses all the space saving that is possible...
    Part of the disk space usage comes from preinstalled Office 365 1 year trial though.

    Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
    If GRUB can do it...
    Microsoft couldn't be bothered to support booting from GPT on BIOS systems, even though a standard exists for that (T.13 EDD-4). If there is no demand from OEMs for this, it likely won't happen.

    Leave a comment:


  • starshipeleven
    replied
    Originally posted by chithanh View Post
    The bigger problem is disk space, a 32 GB Windows tablet after turning on for the first time and installing updates has only half of the space (~16 GB) left. With 64 bit this would be even worse.
    When a recovery partition eats up to 8 GB permanently because the OEM is an idiot, yeah.

    They had used also WIMBoot to shrink/compress the system files even further, but it is discontinued in win10 http://www.howtogeek.com/196416/wimb...y-16-gb-drive/

    as they decided to go for a per-file compression approach instead.

    Then you have the problem that Windows x64 cannot be installed on systens with 32 bit UEFI. Though that is probably something Microsoft could fix if they wanted to.
    If GRUB can do it...

    Leave a comment:


  • chithanh
    replied
    It's not only RAM, but that problem is indeed more pronounced on Windows, where 32 bit software still abounds and thus 32 bit libraries need to remain in memory all the time. On Linux almost everything is 64 bit with only the odd 32 bit app occasionally running.

    The bigger problem is disk space, a 32 GB Windows tablet after turning on for the first time and installing updates has only half of the space (~16 GB) left. With 64 bit this would be even worse.

    Then you have the problem that Windows x64 cannot be installed on systens with 32 bit UEFI. Though that is probably something Microsoft could fix if they wanted to.

    Leave a comment:


  • starshipeleven
    replied
    Originally posted by 137ben View Post
    One of the arguments often made to Windows/Mac users considering switching to Linux is that Linux does not have planned obsolescence.
    Yes, but stuff gets obsolete anyway, and it gets dropped when it is.
    With Linux, it's mostly free, so the incentive isn't there to make your old hardware obselete as quickly as possible.
    There is incentive to NOT work for nothing tho. If only a scant few use a particular thing it may not be worth the time mantaining, as there are other, more used stuff that need maintaining too.

    To a potential Linux convert, the above arguent might seem undercut if the leading beginner-oriented distro dropped support for old CPUs before Microsoft did. Windows 10 comes with a 32-bit x86 version even now (though how much longer MS will continue supporting it is anyone's guess.)
    MS supports 32bit mostly for tablets and low-end mobile crap, because their 32->64 compatibility layer eats up a ton of ram and this is not cool on a 2-3 GB RAM device.
    Hell, even crappy Atoms of back then were 64bit-capable, Intel removed the 64-bit on later lines as they saw what they were used into (and what OS they were used with) to save some $$.

    On linux there is no such thing, ram usage is more or less the same.

    Leave a comment:


  • unixfan2001
    replied
    Originally posted by debianxfce View Post

    Debian testing is a rolling release distribution, you install it once and use testing and unstable repositories to update whenever you want. Debian packaging system takes care that your system will not break, if you update seldom.

    "The 'distribution' can be either the release code name / alias (wheezy, jessie, stretch, sid) or the release class (oldstable, stable, testing, unstable) respectively. If you mean to be tracking a release class then use the class name, if you want to track a Debian point release, use the code name.

    "

    Debian testing installers can be found from here:

    It's NOT a rolling release!

    Debian testing is a cyclical development branch. It's rolling-like but frozen before the release of a new stable. During that freeze it's no longer rolling, at all.
    Stop lying and trying to sell snake oil, FFS!

    Leave a comment:


  • 137ben
    replied
    I'm not an Ubuntu user, and all my machines are 64-bit, so I really have no connection to this debate at all, and my opinion shouldn't really count for anything. But since this is the internet, I'll chime in anyhow:

    A major target of Ubuntu are converts from Windows and Mac. One of the arguments often made to Windows/Mac users considering switching to Linux is that Linux does not have planned obsolescence. Microsoft wants you to throw out your old 32-bit machines, so that you will buy a new machine with a new copy of Windows. If they push updates which make Windows less efficient in terms of CPU or memory usage, they might view it as a win. Apple does it to an even greater extent with iOS: software upgrades are free, but they take up more and more space in your phone's limited storage, in order to encourage you to either buy new iOS devices more frequently or pay more for the phones with more storage. With Linux, it's mostly free, so the incentive isn't there to make your old hardware obselete as quickly as possible.

    To a potential Linux convert, the above arguent might seem undercut if the leading beginner-oriented distro dropped support for old CPUs before Microsoft did. Windows 10 comes with a 32-bit x86 version even now (though how much longer MS will continue supporting it is anyone's guess.) Is that a reason for Ubuntu to continue supporting 32-bit? Not really, but it would be mildly ironic (although I'm not sure Canonical has ever used the above argument, so maybe it wouldn't be ironic.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Passso
    replied
    Originally posted by torsionbar28 View Post

    That's an odd statement to make. "even Apple"? IIRC Apple was the *first* desktop OS to go 64-bit-only. While I'm not a big Apple fan, I do admit they were the desktop industry leader in moving to 64 bits, and they did it extremely smoothly with no software/driver confusion; it just worked.
    It just worked?
    Do you consider that, at every Mac OS version, saying "please burry all your applications and buy a new version" is acceptable?

    Leave a comment:


  • torsionbar28
    replied
    Originally posted by debianxfce View Post

    In Debian there is very bizarre community maintained hardware support like for s390x. Debian Stretch is stable in 2017, so Debian has i386 support for a long time. RedHat does not dominate everything.
    I never said Red Hat "dominates everything" lol. I said they are a major player in Linux kernel development, which is a fact. If they stop maintaining a code that is used by others, then others have to pick up the slack. Pretty simple concept really.

    Leave a comment:

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