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Playing Around With Ubuntu's Snaps, On Fedora

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  • Originally posted by viceversa View Post
    //Right. Neither of those is the actual intended user interface.//

    True, my point, really, was that SNAP already appears to be a better thought out and elegant solution.
    Originally posted by viceversa View Post

    Code:
    wget https://sdk.gnome.org/keys/gnome-sdk.gpg
    flatpak remote-add --user --gpg-import=gnome-sdk.gpg gnome https://sdk.gnome.org/repo/
    flatpak install --user gnome org.gnome.Platform 3.20
    flatpak install --user --bundle LibreOffice.flatpak
    flatpak run org.libreoffice.LibreOffice
    Via SNAP:

    Code:
    wget http://people.canonical.com/~bjoern/snappy/libreoffice_5.2.0.0.beta2_amd64.snap
    sudo snap install libreoffice_5.2.0.0.beta2_amd64.snap
    Speaks for itself.

    If Fedora thinks flatpak is the future of linux packaging, just leave them to their playground.

    It appears, but only to you, that not signing package, that not providing choice over used toolkit plateform, that not being able to lunch apps via CLI and, finally, that requiring extra superuser privileges is "a better thought out and elegant solution."
    Last edited by CanalGuada; 16 June 2016, 06:06 PM.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by CanalGuada View Post
      It appears, but only to you, that not signing package, that not providing choice over used toolkit plateform, that not being able to lunch apps via CLI and, finally, that requiring extra superuser privileges is "a better thought out and elegant solution."
      1.) The Snap Daemon automatically enables package signing.
      2.) As opposed to flatpak?
      3.) I launch Snap apps from CLI all the time.
      4.) Never required "extra" privileges(?)...

      Comment


      • Originally posted by viceversa View Post
        To install Libre via flatpak.

        Code:
        wget https://sdk.gnome.org/keys/gnome-sdk.gpg
        flatpak remote-add --user --gpg-import=gnome-sdk.gpg gnome https://sdk.gnome.org/repo/
        flatpak install --user gnome org.gnome.Platform 3.20
        flatpak install --user --bundle LibreOffice.flatpak
        flatpak run org.libreoffice.LibreOffice
        About flatpak command in that example, first line is redundant. Combine both --user and --bundle in one line and the last line is done once and optional as the icon shortcut will be visible. Considering the integration of flatpak in software managerment like Gnome Software, the complexity of command line is moot. The actual command is

        Code:
        flatpak remote-add --user --gpg-import=gnome-sdk.gpg gnome https://sdk.gnome.org/repo/
        flatpak install --user gnome org.gnome.Platform 3.20 --bundle LibreOffice.flatpak
        All sudden, flatpak is not that bad at all contrary to the claim. At least the advanced user is aware the installation is specific for that account and not the system thus ready for sandboxing process. it is a matter of setting.

        Via SNAP:
        Code:
        wget http://people.canonical.com/~bjoern/snappy/libreoffice_5.2.0.0.beta2_amd64.snap
        sudo snap install libreoffice_5.2.0.0.beta2_amd64.snap
        The question is that command takes account of security and sandboxing?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Qaridarium

          my point is: there is a cheap solution for most people in germany to get an internet speed like my one.
          It is called "Vectoring-DSL". my 100/40 line costs only 45€ a month and the Telecom company has a plan to make it 250/100 in 2 years by cutting the range to the glass-fiber point to the half.
          sure it is not a solution for every place in germany but in fact for a lot of people.

          also you just lie about the "DSL-light" it is not because telecom slow it down "drosseln" because DSL-lite only have 386kbps and the first Telekom-DSL with ADSL1.0 had 756kbos. it is because some people are out of range for normal dsl so they make very long rang DSL product with the ability to have function in very bad cables.

          and the 386kbps dsl light is ADSL1.0 technique if you upgrade it to ADSL2.0+ you would get more performance but in fact most companies do not upgrade there modem so these customers can not upgrade.
          but in fact the Telekom want to replace every ADSL1.0 and ADSL2+ with VDSL2.0+ Vectoring A17 and this will bring these DSL-Light customers ~6mbps and in 2 years ~16mbps. Sure it is bad compared to the 250000kbps if you are in range... these people just need to upgrade to glass-fiber to the home program also from Telekom sure very expensive (15000€) compared to a Vectoring solution.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Very-h...ne_2#Vectoring

          and a bonus: if you are a DSL-Lite customer on 386kbps you can do 2 thinks from your side:
          you can use a "load balancing router" to use multible lines and you can use the good old Phantom circuit to get more lines.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_circuit
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Load_Balancing
          Sorry, NO package management system that requires people to upgrade their ISP can ever be a reasonable choice. Some people like myself do not live in a house they control and do not control any utiiities, others rely on public access only. Real world: if a default Ubuntu install comes with a bunch of snaps with huge update downloads, those packages won't be updated by users with limited bandwidth. You can't install DSL, FIOS, cable, or anything other than mobile when you don't control a house to wire it too.

          Update: word is the Libreoffice Snap contained all the debugging symbols and one without it was something like 287MB, comparable to other systems. Thus Snappy might not have a problem with this
          Last edited by Luke; 16 June 2016, 09:46 PM. Reason: New info

          Comment


          • Originally posted by viceversa View Post

            1.) The Snap Daemon automatically enables package signing.
            LibreOffice Snap developer have to disagree.
            Originally posted by https://skyfromme.wordpress.com/2016/06/14/libreoffice-5-2-0-beta2-as-a-snap-package/
            So — how can you “test and play with the upcoming LibreOffice version to your hearts delight” with this on Ubuntu 16.04? Like this:
            Code:
            wget http://people.canonical.com/~bjoern/snappy/libreoffice_5.2.0.0.beta2_amd64.snap[B]{,.sha512sum}[/B]
            [B]sha512sum -c libreoffice_5.2.0.0.beta2_amd64.snap.sha512sum[/B] && sudo snap install --devmode libreoffice_5.2.0.0.beta2_amd64.snap /snap/bin/libreoffice
            2.) As opposed to flatpak?
            Yes. Flatpak allows users to install how many runtimes, here GNOME ones, they may need, when available, in a per-user area. This first LibreOffice.flatpak may be based on GNOME 3.20 runtime at this moment, but a fixed GTK version don't seem to be a prerequesite for LibreOffice till now.
            Code:
            flatpak install [B]--user[/B] gnome gnome org.gnome.Platform [B]3.20[/B]
            3.) I launch Snap apps from CLI all the time.
            Fine. But you didn't provide any way to do it.

            4.) Never required "extra" privileges(?)...
            You need some with a "sudo snap install" command in order to install an application globally, don't you ?

            Comment


              • Linux x86_64 (deb) - 213MB
              • Linux x86_64 (rpm) - 213 MB
              • Mac OS X x86_64 - 201MB
              • Windows x86_64 - 238 MB
              • Linux x86_64 (snap) - 287MB

              With snap packages i thought once initially installed updates only upgraded the part6s needing updating so a 287MB snap may only involve a 5 meg update Am i wrong?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by viceversa View Post
                True, my point, really, was that SNAP already appears to be a better thought out and elegant solution.
                What you are seeing is just that flatpack has to import the package signature first with a separate command, while snap ??? (it can use signed packages but I don't know where it reads the key to add from, I hope not from the package itself EDIT: ah yeah, said in a post above), it allows to install the app for some users only and all other interesting features I don't see Snap using or even asking in its CLI.

                Also, super-fucking-user is required by snap, while flatpack does not require superuser. BIG FAT DIFFERENCE RIGHT THERE MAN. The whole point of app sandboxing is to NOT NEED friggin superuser to do everything is needed to use a system, Android-style.
                You can give a system to the average moron without the admin password and he will be able to use it in his daily life, and stay safe.

                I repeat, this isn't a drop-in apt-get replacement where you don't give a shit about things since it's not doing anything particularly complex anyway, and stuff comes from safe repos.

                The more things I can set with CLI commands the better. Since the CLI control will be used 99% of the times by GUI applications controlling the packager application anyway.

                Because FOR THE LOVE OF ZOD, this kind of app packages will be installed by double-clicking on something (special links like employed by Ubuntu and Suse, or local appliactions like Gdebi for Debian/buntu), not by opening up a damn terminal.
                Last edited by starshipeleven; 17 June 2016, 04:34 AM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by CanalGuada View Post
                  LibreOffice Snap developer have to disagree.

                  Code:
                  wget http://people.canonical.com/~bjoern/snappy/libreoffice_5.2.0.0.beta2_amd64.snap[B]{,.sha512sum}[/B]
                  [B]sha512sum -c libreoffice_5.2.0.0.beta2_amd64.snap.sha512sum[/B] && sudo snap install --devmode libreoffice_5.2.0.0.beta2_amd64.snap /snap/bin/libreoffice
                  SHA is a checksum not a signature.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by mhall119 View Post
                    No, it's a runtime configuration problem, nothing more.
                    just as i said, bundled ubuntu runtime configuration problem
                    Originally posted by mhall119 View Post
                    The fact that we've made snaps usable on non-Ubuntu distros is evidence to the contrary
                    but you didn't, nobody is going to disable selinux
                    Originally posted by mhall119 View Post
                    Nor is Mir required for snap confinement, it can be done with Wayland too, just not with X11.
                    how many snaps with wayland confinement are available?
                    Originally posted by mhall119 View Post
                    Probably not Krita 3.0 in stable releases.
                    probably yes in rolling distros. fedora has copr
                    Last edited by pal666; 17 June 2016, 02:16 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by mhall119 View Post
                      It doesn't sound like you've actually looked at what is in the snap, have you?
                      who is crazy enough to download gigabyte of crap to look inside?
                      Last edited by pal666; 17 June 2016, 02:24 PM.

                      Comment

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