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Beta Released Of Devuan, The Systemd-Free Version Of Debian

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  • Beta Released Of Devuan, The Systemd-Free Version Of Debian

    Phoronix: Beta Released Of Devuan, The Systemd-Free Version Of Debian

    For those systemd haters that are out there, the beta of Devuan has been released as a spin of Debian Jessie that's free of systemd...

    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...-Beta-Released

  • #2
    You don't need to hate SystemD to use Devuan.
    It's about choice not hate.

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    • #3
      The Unix mantra of "do one thing and do it well" has, unfortunately, led to the proliferation of brittle scripts which call upon lots of unrelated utilities in a haphazard fashion. The old init system really is awful, so I'm glad we're mostly rid of it. As for systemd, it isn't perfect, but some aspects of it are definitely a step in the right direction.

      I personally do not see the point of sticking with init for new deployments. Doing proper supervision and job control in Bash is just crazy. But some people insist on living in the past.

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      • #4
        zombie of veteran unix admins returns

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Nille_kungen View Post
          It's about choice
          it's about fragmentation and useless work

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          • #6
            TBH - I have taken for granted that things start and stop when they are supposed to. I will still take that for granted as long as the init system my distro chooses works.

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            • #7
              I still think SystemD is shit. It's become less shit than it was, but it's still shit. Here's the simplest way to fuck it up: create an NTFS partition, set it to auto in /etc/fstab, delete ntfs-3g, reboot, have a total fuck up. No, systemd won't say "I cannot mount /dev/blabla to /mnt/somewhere because necessary files might be missing", it will say something like "Bus error 801". WTF???? Really?! It's the best they can do?!

              Don't take my words for granted, go check Fedora 23/24-alpha which contain basically a pure systemd implementation.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Nille_kungen View Post
                You don't need to hate SystemD to use Devuan.
                It's about choice not hate.
                About choice... unless I choose to use systemd.

                ‚Äčhttps://beta.devuan.org/os/packages/list/blacklist

                So currently Devuan has less choice/"init freedom" than regular Debian since the latter doesn't forbid anyone to use the init of their choice. This is completely ridiculous and just shows it's more about politics/hate rather than choice. This distro offers nothing compared to Debian besides blacklisting an init and using another as default, which any "Veteran Unix Admin" should be able to do on any distro.

                Originally posted by birdie View Post
                Here's the simplest way to fuck it up: create an NTFS partition, set it to auto in /etc/fstab, delete ntfs-3g, reboot, have a total fuck up. No, systemd won't say "I cannot mount /dev/blabla to /mnt/somewhere because necessary files might be missing"
                I'd rather have a fstab mounting issue interrupt the boot process and give a notification about it rather than silently failing and potentially induce data loss/corruption. Plus in these cases you are dropped in the emergency console and can fix the issue, it's not like the kernel panics and that you are helpless.
                Last edited by Scias; 04-30-2016, 11:30 AM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by birdie View Post
                  I still think SystemD is shit. It's become less shit than it was, but it's still shit. Here's the simplest way to fuck it up: create an NTFS partition, set it to auto in /etc/fstab, delete ntfs-3g, reboot, have a total fuck up. No, systemd won't say "I cannot mount /dev/blabla to /mnt/somewhere because necessary files might be missing", it will say something like "Bus error 801". WTF???? Really?! It's the best they can do?!
                  That is probably due to the shitty in-kernel ntfs driver being used. When available, libmount (part of util-linux by the way, which is used by systemd) will call mount.fstype helpers to mount a fs, and for ntfs, such helper is provided by ntfs-3g.

                  I am not sure what it does otherwise, but I suppose it will try standard mount, using in-kernel drivers (did I say the in-kernel driver for ntfs is shit?). The errors you are seeing are probably kernel messages from the kernel ntfs driver, not systemd. I suppose you'd run into the same issue without systemd (by just running mount).

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Krejzi View Post

                    That is probably due to the shitty in-kernel ntfs driver being used. When available, libmount (part of util-linux by the way, which is used by systemd) will call mount.fstype helpers to mount a fs, and for ntfs, such helper is provided by ntfs-3g.

                    I am not sure what it does otherwise, but I suppose it will try standard mount, using in-kernel drivers (did I say the in-kernel driver for ntfs is shit?). The errors you are seeing are probably kernel messages from the kernel ntfs driver, not systemd. I suppose you'd run into the same issue without systemd (by just running mount).
                    Firstly, the error is exactly from systemd, secondly, in-kernel NTFS driver is not even built - I stopped using it circa 7 years ago.

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