A Demo Of Ubuntu's Unity 8 On The Desktop

[Akka]

You are using the GTK with the X11 backend through XWayland.
So you are basically running GNOME on Wayland over XWayland using the X11 backend.
You are not natively running GNOME on Wayland.

The Wayland backend for GTK is still not mature enough.

Most of the application I use use the native wayland backend. The big exception is the web browser. Gnome web is native but I prefer firefox.

[Akka]

I couldn't find Puma online, except for an unrated softpedia download..... not trusting that. I looked in the software center and typed in gedit and found leafpad. It opens in 2.5 seconds on first load, and in a fraction of a second on any launch afterwards. Seems to be prefect for my needs.

Thanks for the Help blackout23 & Passso.




Also, I think there is something seriously wrong with gedit and the system settings applications..... I just did these timings with a stop watch.

Application: Time to open new instance;Time to open new window

chrome:5s;<1s
gedit:12s;3s
systemsettings:15s;9s

Now, under load due to dota2 being open.

chome:9s;2s
gedit:27s;11s
systemsettings:43s;17s


Why are gedit and systemsettings soooo slow? Also, the first time I opened systemsettings while dota2 was open, it froze and blackscreened, so I had to alt+F2 KILL the application and try again. Makes no sense.

I don't use gedit much but it coldstart almost instantly for me. Gnome systemsettings starts in less than two seconds on a computer with i3 cpu and spinning disk so you probly have problem with your installation.

I have not tried the pluma editor but you can download it from its github site. Personally I use emacs. I was a vim user but the spacemacs distribution of emacs got me to switch to emacs. So I recomend emacs with spacemacs https://github.com/syl20bnr/spacemacs

[devius]

I just did these timings with a stop watch.

Application: Time to open new instance;Time to open new window

chrome:5s;<1s
gedit:12s;3s
systemsettings:15s;9s

It took 4s to open a new instance of Gedit right after boot on an old Atom N270 based netbook with a super slow 160GB HDD, so yeah, there's something wrong with your system.

[NothingMuchHereToSay]

My goodness, there's a lot a babies in the Linux world. NIH is what FOSS thrives on, no? Look at GNOME 2 -> MATE, GNOME 3 -> Cinnamon and Cinnamon is basically a crappier version of the KDE.

[TheBlackCat]

i pointed out that they had specific requirements that could not be fullfilled with wayland

Yes, they said that. Then it turned out that Wayland actually could fullfill all of their requirements, and they ended up having to retract all of their technical justifications.

maybe you should read the primary informations and not only the phoronix summeries? http://blog.cooperteam.net/2013/03/for-posterity.html etc.pp.)

The problem with all of those reasons is that, even if they were all true and valid, it is still much, much, much more work to do it using Mir. It comes down to doing everything themselves or just doing part of it themselves. As events since the announcement of Mir has shown, doing things themselves ended up leading to far more work.

The real reason is simply arrogance. They thought they could do it easier, faster, and better than Wayland if they didn't have to play along with everyone else. All the reasons listed in your link boil down to that. They were wrong, they grossly underestimated the time and difficulty to make a display server, and now they are way behind everyone else.

when you look at the date (nov 2010) and look at the date of today. what do you think? when you ask the wayland guys they will tell you, that wayland is production-ready "since ages" but in reality that is just false. we dont have a working desktop on wayland right now.

Wayland is ready, it is the compositors that aren't yet. Which is better than Mir, where neither the display server nor the compositor is ready. And we would be further ahead still if the manpower Canonical used for Mir had been used for Wayland instead.

and the other point is again: when canonical gets pushed back all the time when they want to contribute, who is to blame for doing own things then?

Please point to any case where Canonical was prevented from getting involved in Wayland, or where they even tried. After the Mir debacle, after Mark had insulted various other parties over it, then they started getting some pushback from other non-Wayland groups. But that was a direct result of how they handled Mir.

[NothingMuchHereToSay]

Please point to any case where Canonical was prevented from getting involved in Wayland, or where they even tried. After the Mir debacle, after Mark had insulted various other parties over it, then they started getting some pushback from other non-Wayland groups. But that was a direct result of how they handled Mir.

From what I've been told, Canonical was going to submit a few patches, but they weren't up to Wayland's standards, so they made their own display server, according to the reddit #r/linux freenode channel. Canonical abandoned Wayland and decided to make their own thing, which isn't a problem because it's FOSS, you have a choice, stop making a choice you don't have to make a big deal. So many people are passionate about FOSS and all that, but FOSS is what makes choice so amazingly good. I can support Mir while Wayland continues its own sluggish pathway.

[profoundWHALE]

From what I've been told, Canonical was going to submit a few patches, but they weren't up to Wayland's standards, so they made their own display server, according to the reddit #r/linux freenode channel. Canonical abandoned Wayland and decided to make their own thing, which isn't a problem because it's FOSS, you have a choice, stop making a choice you don't have to make a big deal. So many people are passionate about FOSS and all that, but FOSS is what makes choice so amazingly good. I can support Mir while Wayland continues its own sluggish pathway.

Especially when considering how they want to be in phones and tablets, I can see why they would want to be in control of what they themselves are doing. As in, if they get a bug on wayland with a phone and start submitting patches, they are at the mercy of the wayland developers.

[TheBlackCat]

From what I've been told, Canonical was going to submit a few patches, but they weren't up to Wayland's standards, so they made their own display server, according to the reddit #r/linux freenode channel.

So it wasn't so much that Wayland devs didn't want to work with Canonical, but that their patches were poor quality? And the message they took from that is that they should just stop interacting with the people who actually know what they are doing? That sounds even worse.

Canonical abandoned Wayland and decided to make their own thing, which isn't a problem because it's FOSS, you have a choice, stop making a choice you don't have to make a big deal.

They have a right to make a choice, but we also have a right to comment on whether we think that choice was a good one for them or for the community as a whole. I think it is pretty clear that it was a bad move from both perspectives. Freedom goes both ways.

I can support Mir while Wayland continues its own sluggish pathway.

If Wayland actually was being sluggish, I could agree with that. But although Canonical originally claimed that Mir development was going to be fast, it has dragged on and on and on and on, even after incorporating more and more work done for Wayland. We are now nearly two years after the point Mir was supposed to launch, and Wayland is still way ahead of Mir on every front, and Mir releases keep slipping further and further into the future.

[TheBlackCat]

As in, if they get a bug on wayland with a phone and start submitting patches, they are at the mercy of the wayland developers.

First, Wayland is a protocol. The parts that are likely to have bugs under Wayland would either be maintained by Canonical (their compositor), or need upstream patches even with Mir (input handling, toolkits, mesa, etc). So Mir isn't an advantage in this regard.

Second, every major distro already maintains patches for upstream components like X11 and Wayland. Part of the advantage of open-source is that you are never at the mercy of upstream. So maintaining Wayland patches (to the extent that the phrase even makes sense) is no different than what they are already doing, and would still be much easier than maintaining an entire display server.