Details Of DNF Succeeding Yum In Fedora 22 Still Being Discussed

[nanonyme]

Actually, you're just supposed to do what the link says. And there is no reason to reboot on a new kernel during a system upgrade.

I'll need to review the fedora-upgrade script when I have time to comment further but it's highly probable that guide will result in an incorrectly labeled disk. I was just discussing about this on #fedora-qa some time ago and lost my illusions about upgrades being easy during it

[droidhacker]

That is not what the script does. It has a message in front saying yum is deprecated but it also automatically redirects to dnf. So it works more like an alias. This maintains backward compatibility for the most part (dnf and yum have *mostly* similar options but it is not 100%) while allowing a transition period. This is pretty similar to how service command in Fedora redirects to systemctl automatically.

Well, the difference here is that systemctl isn't a "drop in" replacement for 'service'. It is something new entirely, and the current 'service' command is a lot more complex than the current 'yum' command, since it has to reformat the input parameters to match systemctl.

[droidhacker]

Well, technically you're first supposed to update yum, then kernel, then selinux-policy-targeted, then boot to new kernel and finish the update. Or you can just use fedup. Selinux-policy-targeted is important because otherwise your disk is likely incorrectly labeled after upgrade and you need full relabel which is slow

Actually, you're just supposed to do what the link says. And there is no reason to reboot on a new kernel during a system upgrade.

[droidhacker]

I've promised to myself not to answer to this tread anymore but i just can't keep it.
Did you ever tried that routine?

Yes, lots of times.

Keep trying buddy, you're on your own on this one. Just because people faced "rpm dependency hell" in the 90's, before yum was even available to sort that out, doesn't mean that those old problems are still making life miserable.

[Chewi]

Well I switched to dnf a while ago and it's working fine here. I don't care what it's called.

[Candy]

Hello,

I just registered here myself as a new user because this topic caught my attention.

A). DNF is a drop-in replacement for yum, and really yum-ng, and so it should have the name and command interface of yum and they shouldn't be playing around with these kinds of scripts period.

Yesterday after this topic has been brought up on phoronix.com I had a closer look at dnf (now that yum got marked deprecated). After some investigations and experiements I can clearly conclude that dnf is *not* there yet.

Quite an subset of yum commands are missing. For example it is impossible to do:

yum swap -- autoremove <packageset> -- install <packageset>

or

yum --downloadonly --downloaddir=<path> --assumeyes group install "gnome-desktop"

I do not want to explain why I (we) use to do this but all I can say is that there is an operating infrastructure build around yum (written by me (us) which is well documented and is working for quite some time now. I already filled in some bugs in bugzilla.redhat.com:

Some of these bugs (at least one so far) got closed as duplicate. It was commented and pointed to some "other command set" doing something similar (but not equally). The point for me coming here is that from what I heard is, that dnf is an in place replacement of yum. Sadly not providing the *same* command set. Forcing people to rewrite huge chunks of existing 3rd infrastructure because commands have changed, operate differently or simply do not exist.

To be fair, here the reports:

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1203491

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1209638

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1209648

While I was typing this I got a reply on bugzilla saying that dnf is not a drop in replacement of yum.

[nanonyme]

That is not what the script does. It has a message in front saying yum is deprecated but it also automatically redirects to dnf. So it works more like an alias. This maintains backward compatibility for the most part (dnf and yum have *mostly* similar options but it is not 100%) while allowing a transition period. This is pretty similar to how service command in Fedora redirects to systemctl automatically.

Except that yum's features are a superset of dnf's features so not everything can be redirected. Eg yum's transactional shell is a highly powerful feature through which you could basically do anything else that's missing in dnf if it was implemented. I mean, fine, it's manual repair but it allows people to carve you a manual transaction that will fix your system in a support channel

[edmon]

I fail to see what is "some magic" about;

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Upgrading_Fedora_using_yum

Seems like pretty straight-forward instructions.
- import new key,
- update yum itself,
- clean all the crap that might be lurking,
- do the update.

I've promised to myself not to answer to this tread anymore but i just can't keep it.
Did you ever tried that routine?

[RahulSundaram]

Except that backwards compatibility goes out the door, if "yum" is just going to be a script saying it's deprecated and to use DNF instead.

That is not what the script does. It has a message in front saying yum is deprecated but it also automatically redirects to dnf. So it works more like an alias. This maintains backward compatibility for the most part (dnf and yum have *mostly* similar options but it is not 100%) while allowing a transition period. This is pretty similar to how service command in Fedora redirects to systemctl automatically.

You new to Phoronix, Espionage, or just don't check regularly? I ask because Michael is pretty on-top of DNF news so it'd take a lot to not know it existed

That was a poor choice of words

I did hear of DNF before, but I never really looked into it or knew what it did specifically (I wasn't really a Fedora user until recently).