LinuxCon: What's Going On With Fedora.Next

[lsatenstein]

A Fedora Remix from Russian Fedora (Yandex)

Full Fedora 20, with the extras, including codecs, chromium, and more

http://mirror.yandex.ru/fedora/russianfedora/releases/RFRemix/20/RFRemix/

It boots with the Fedora logos and all.

I standardized on this remix

[gilboa]

2nd one can be solved with korora for quite a while. don't know how .Next will affect that... or if it will.

Korona != Fedora. Konoroa isn't tied to Fedora's legal obligations and policies in any way.

[justmy2cents]

Neither can be solved by Fedora.
The first (Steam) can only be solved by steam.
The second (codecs) can only be solved when the legal issues are resolved.

2nd one can be solved with korora for quite a while. don't know how .Next will affect that... or if it will.

You can use Qubes OS if you need that kind of security.

that's not even remotely related to what i asked about and not really interesting. let's forget i said security is not really important to me for what i want to play with while knowing project is in unfinished state

i was asking about specific project that is in the works.

http://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2014/07/10/desktop-containers-the-way-forward/

note that this post already states more or less all subproject states, well everything but amount of inclusion in F21

[gilboa]

What I am hoping for is a version for the general public that we can recommend to people instead of Ubuntu. Fedora overall feels more solid than Ubuntu now but there are still certain aspects that can get in the way for the general public. <b>An example I can think of is the inability to start Steam in Big Picture Mode on Fedora 20 without first turning off SELinux. Obviously, installing codecs and binary drivers is another major issue for the general public</b>.

Neither can be solved by Fedora.
The first (Steam) can only be solved by steam.
The second (codecs) can only be solved when the legal issues are resolved.

[sarmad]

Of course. We're just targeting Workstation at a specific set of end users. That doesn't mean that it won't be good for regular users. It's just indicative of our focus: where we'll prioritize feedback, how we'll measure success, etc. "All end users" is too big be useful in that way.

We'll also provide non-workstation desktop spins at the current (or better!) quality, including different desktop technologies like KDE and Xfce. (No one has stepped up to really work on a non-workstation Gnome spin, but that would be possible too.)

What I am hoping for is a version for the general public that we can recommend to people instead of Ubuntu. Fedora overall feels more solid than Ubuntu now but there are still certain aspects that can get in the way for the general public. An example I can think of is the inability to start Steam in Big Picture Mode on Fedora 20 without first turning off SELinux. Obviously, installing codecs and binary drivers is another major issue for the general public.

[Stellarwind]

how far along is docker desktop integration? this would probably be one of my big 3 i'm waiting for wayland,next gl and docker desktop sandoboxing

You can use Qubes OS if you need that kind of security.

[eidolon]

sorry for the following ramble

We're just targeting Workstation at a specific set of end users. That doesn't mean that it won't be good for regular users. It's just indicative of our focus: where we'll prioritize feedback, how we'll measure success, etc. "All end users" is too big be useful in that way.

While it would be nice if there were unofficial outreach to remixes like Korora to mobilize the greater-Fedora (i.e. both inside and outside the official project) community en masse to try to make sure there are clearly designated landing pads for a diversity of users (as regular users outnumber developers, and beyond "regular" users, just as the products of Fedora.next cater to different needs, so do a variety of spins and remixes), I hope that spins, particularly alternative desktop spins, are at least as prominently advertised when the Fedora.next products land as they are now. I emphasized part of the quote above just to make it clear that I acknowledge it, but that doesn't mean that the multitude of regular users will be in tune with it, unless it is clearly communicated to them. If it isn't well-communicated, having another way to readily engage these users, such as having easily identifiable in-project alternatives, would seemingly be beneficial. I understand not wanting to crowd the product messaging, but some users may not feel the product space is for them. For those users, I hope the spins will remain as discoverable as they are now.

While Workstation may not be shunning regular users, by not courting them, and instead actively focusing on developers, much the same effect may be accomplished. An argument could be made that with the advent of Workstation there hasn't been that much of an actual change in the targeted end user, but that perhaps the marketing is/will be more matter-of-fact about it now, and the deliverable will be more tailored. While Ubuntu seems more preoccupied with mobile at the moment (not to say that it isn't still targeting the regular user desktop/laptop space, if only for the purpose of leverage towards its other, potentially more lucrative, aspirations), the bread and butter of distros like Linux Mint certainly is the regular user market segment. I don't think all the distributions constituting the distro landscape are so interchangeable that users choosing Ubuntu-based distros as opposed to Fedora-based distros has exactly the same impact, perceived or realized, on Fedora the brand as well as the Fedora ecosystem.

This isn't meant to be negative, I'm just not certain at this point that the Fedora.next changes will make the Fedora Project more successful in fact. Clearly the metrics by which the Fedora Project measures success will be changed somewhat.

[Luke_Wolf]

To be honest I have to agree at this point... Linux distros are boring. All of the interesting stuff going on right now is with infrastructure and both steam and gog, I've used every version of fedora on one PC or another since 12, and openSUSE since 11.3, and yet for all that time the distro parts themselves have remained rather stagnant from the perspective of a desktop user. Yes there's been minor changes like the shift from system-config-firewall to firewalld, but let's be honest most of the interesting stuff that's been going on for the past few years has been cross-distro

On the other hand PC-BSD is very interesting in spite of all of it's rough edges, why? Because unlike Ubuntu, Fedora, openSUSE, or any other distro I'm aware of, it's working on developing and designing a product for the desktop as opposed to just developing a fancy package manager but otherwise just providing a set of packages. Once PC-BSD cleans up it's rough edges and FreeBSD expands and improves it's hardware support I could seriously see it giving linux distros a run for their money.

Fedora.Next is definitely a good step in the direction of working to deal with this though although I'm withholding my judgement on it until I see how it's actually implemented in practice

[justmy2cents]

Not something we'll see in F21, but after that... possibilities are open. The perfect desktop container solution has a lot of prerequisites (including wayland, actually), so it's going to be a while.

thanks.

hmm, perfect... yes, also kdbus and portals too as far as i'm aware. as well as systemd user integration for docker.

i'm more or less asking to play with options and be able to create something like imperfect wine containers. security is not major concern while i'm playing with that. i'd guess there will be copr kdbus kernel for next too, so that only leaves systemd more or less

[mattdm]

how far along is docker desktop integration? this would probably be one of my big 3 i'm waiting for wayland,next gl and docker desktop sandoboxing

Not something we'll see in F21, but after that... possibilities are open. The perfect desktop container solution has a lot of prerequisites (including wayland, actually), so it's going to be a while.