The FFmpeg vs. Libav War Continues In Debian Land

[discordian]

This.
Debian is strangely popular distro despite it acting full retard. Its like a poison to linux community.

Debian is damn reliable, if you had some other distro (starting with U) that broke standard utilities like wget, killing quite a few of your scripts for months, beeing unable to connect to the net unless you use the default DHCP settings then you might understand the reasoning behind it.
Yes everything is fixable, but it often defeats the purpose of using a distro instead of building from scratch (creating a fixed LiveCD is even more daunting).

To me, hte sheer size of ffmpeg is its problem - just dont use it unless its for media players. "Standard" stuff like JPEG and PNG should never be handled by it, and a plain OS shouldnt depend on ffmpeg for that reason.

[Nille]

What do the other major distros use out of interest, FFmpeg or libav?

debian and derivatives use libav and the others use ffmpeg.

My opinion is to purge libav and use ffmpeg.

Someone said that libav is only in debian because the maintainer is involved in libav.

[GreatEmerald]

Oh boy, maybe I should start looking into a new Debian-based Phoenix Wright case before it's too late

[sdack]

This is why random open source projects that are community ran will always fail. Now we have two projects with slight differences and people are expected to support both of them. Such a disgrace. This is a perfect example of why the Linux desktop isn't taken seriously, people. ...

There is more than open software. Companies may only focus on products, turn-overs and profits, but open source is more than this. It is about people working with people just as much as it is about software. When there is a communication problem between people then they should be able to work it out in any way they see fit and not be forced by some higher management to bend over and only for the sake of peace and harmony. That peace and harmony will only be superficial, thereby not be of any use, and it is not like anyone is hurting each other when differences are being settled openly.
Of course, one could try the "liberal corporate approach" of solving conflicts by adding a gym and a juice bar to the projects, go on a field trip for a team building experience, or just screw the project leader's wife. I hope you catch my drift ...

Personally do I appreciate the fork and Debian's support of libav over ffmpeg. I have followed some of the conflict and things did change on the side of ffmpeg as a result, which I also take as a concession. It would be nice if ffmpeg's leadership would now also resign and take a back seat to allow the projects to merge and to find a new leadership who everyone can trust in.

[Isedonde]

So it looks like ffmpeg is better from a technical POV, possibly fixing bugs in various Debian multimedia applications and enabling some other apps (like mplayer) to build. libav causes bugs in Debian applications and causes builds to fail, so there's no mplayer in Debian unstable.

I've read a few reports by users who fixed bugs simply by installing ffmpeg from a third-party repository. ffmpeg is simply moving and fixing bugs faster than libav.

The only reason why libav exists and is used in Debian is some fight between ffmpeg developers that resulted in a fork, and unfortunately, the Debian ffmpeg maintainer was on the libav side of the fight. And now he's unwilling to package ffmpeg, because the ffmpeg devs are his enemy. And it looks like he's also trying to prevent ffmpeg from re-entering Debian when maintained by someone else who is on neither side of the ffmpeg/libav conflict. It's a pity that Debian and Ubuntu users are now stuck with sub-par multimedia libraries.

[BubuXP]

An interesting reading:

http://blog.pkh.me/p/13-the-ffmpeg-libav-situation.html

If ffmpeg will not be included in Jessie, I hope some developers will help Marillat with his work (and possibly make his repository an official one, but it's a daydream).

[sdack]

debian and derivatives use libav and the others use ffmpeg.

My opinion is to purge libav and use ffmpeg.

Someone said that libav is only in debian because the maintainer is involved in libav.

It was the majority of developers who left ffmpeg to create libav. ffmpeg's leadership decided to keep an iron hand on the project despite what the majority thought. It is then not surprising to see distribution maintainers supporting libav over ffmpeg. Every maintainer is wise to follow the majority. Some may only not care for any of this, possibly because they fear change.

Personally did I only ever come once into contact with the ffmpeg project and while I like people with a good ego do I have little time for those who put their ego before reason. It causes too much effort for contributors. I understand why it happens and it is something one cannot always control, but it makes for a bad leadership. Not everyone is a good leader and while everyone can become a good leader is there often not enough time to wait for it to happen. Therefore I do appreciate the fork and the will of the majority to drive on the development. And this is how it is supposed to be, isn't it?

What is interesting to see is how ffmpeg has managed to fight the fork and kept their boat afloat successfully by including almost every libav patch into their code. I wonder if this will be enough to reunite the projects.

[Akka]

It was the majority of developers who left ffmpeg to create libav. ffmpeg's leadership decided to keep an iron hand on the project despite what the majority thought. It is then not surprising to see distribution maintainers supporting libav over ffmpeg. Every maintainer is wise to follow the majority. Some may only not care for any of this, possibly because they fear change.

Personally did I only ever come once into contact with the ffmpeg project and while I like people with a good ego do I have little time for those who put their ego before reason. It causes too much effort for contributors. I understand why it happens and it is something one cannot always control, but it makes for a bad leadership. Not everyone is a good leader and while everyone can become a good leader is there often not enough time to wait for it to happen. Therefore I do appreciate the fork and the will of the majority to drive on the development. And this is how it is supposed to be, isn't it?

What is interesting to see is how ffmpeg has managed to fight the fork and kept their boat afloat successfully by including almost every libav patch into their code. I wonder if this will be enough to reunite the projects.

I get the impression most project that use ffmpeg or libav is recommending ffmpeg. The most famous user that only used libav was mplayer2. Now mplayer2 is gone and replaced with MPV and I get the impression MPV is recommending the user to use ffmpeg over libav.

[Ouroboros]

I get the impression most project that use ffmpeg or libav is recommending ffmpeg. The most famous user that only used libav was mplayer2. Now mplayer2 is gone and replaced with MPV and I get the impression MPV is recommending the user to use ffmpeg over libav.

Going by recent commit comments, it seems like libav support has been giving the MPV developer a lot of headaches.

[Scimmia]

It was the majority of developers who left ffmpeg to create libav. ffmpeg's leadership decided to keep an iron hand on the project despite what the majority thought.

The leader made a decision not to make wholesale changes to absolutely everything related to development. That's what leaders are for, making these decisions. Governing by committee is a losing proposition all around.

It is then not surprising to see distribution maintainers supporting libav over ffmpeg.

One. One root distribution made the change, that's all, and that's only because the Debian maintainer was one of the butt-hurt devs.

Every maintainer is wise to follow the majority. Some may only not care for any of this, possibly because they fear change.

Maintainers are wise to look at the problems that the change will cause and not make a change based on emotions.