Ubuntu To Abandon Upstart, Switch To Systemd

[Baconmon]

Have you loost your dictionary?..

Ubuntu/Canonical made Upstart, not surprise they may see this decision as loosing.

Upstrart did not loose in 5 min no-brainer-say-yes discussion.

Note: if your reply don't provide any technical reasoning but anti lennard zealotry i won't loose my time replying back, if instead you have technical insides worth discussing ill be happy of exchange ideas

First of all "loosing" does not mean there was a fight.

Someone wins, someone looses.

"Lose" is a word that you should have learned in first grade.. It is not a complicated word.. Why can no one on the internet spell this one simple word correctly?..Every time..

[stikonas]

No, I don't think they do. 99.999% of Gnome developers are using Linux, and while they're not against portability, nor is it something they consider of great importance.

Back in the day, Sun put a lot of effort into supporting Solaris, as part of their SunRay thin-client platform - they employed several Gnome developers, and sponsored a lot of usability testing. But that's the past - Oracle still sell that stuff, but Solaris is effectively dead as a desktop platform, and I don't think they contribute much (if anything) to Gnome these days.

As for FreeBSD, they're just too small, lacking in influence compared to the 99.999% of developers working on Linux. Always have been - as Linux built more and more system infrastructure (stuff like HAL, DeviceKit/Udev, Udisk/Upower, NetworkManager, etc), BSD developers tried to port those things, but they were just too few - they'd spend effort getting something half working, just in time for the Linux developers to write that thing off as a failed experiment.

Are you implying that Gnome has at least 100 000 developers? They are certainly not doing a decent job with such man power.

[justmy2cents]

The zealots who hated Ubuntu because it had upstart will now be able to hate it because it uses systemd.

for me, that would be one reason to stop hatting it. if nothing else, at least we can configure services in standard way on all distros that adopted systemd. it solves one nightmare.

[justmy2cents]

No.
Mir and Wayland are different things.

Mir is a display server. Wayland is a display server protocol.

You can't abandon mir to use wayland. Wayland it not usable, only implementable.

What can happens in the future that a 2.0 version of mir can implement the wayland protocol. And according to some ubuntu devs, it not so hard to do this.

so... let me see if i got this right. you put display server, add display protocol on top of it and then add protocol handling compositors on top of protocol. grats, you just created X11 with all its flaws. ohh, wait... we already have that and it sucks

if you simply add mir compositor on top of wayland.... sheesh, naaaaahhhh.... that would be too smart

[Nelson]

A standard, my friend, is something everyone agrees upon. Now when something is being pushed down everyone's throat - there's another word for that.

Everyone? So there aren't any standards?

[Nelson]

From a technical stand-point, Upstart is better behaved (please correct me if I'm wrong). But systemd starting everything willy nilly has never made sense to me. That's how Windows works. Windows takes forever to load the desktop. Ubuntu (upstart) is very fast boot with no delay.

The bottom line has always seemed to me that Upstart is the better choice, but Canonical ruined it with their draconian license. Why does Canonical not make open-source stuff freely available like the rest of the community?

It's a damn shame Upstart is no longer going to be used because I've always felt it's the better choice from a technical view. License wise is different. Anybody else ever get the feeling that Canonical holds Ubuntu back?

If upstart inverted their dependance tree, I suspect there could have been a more substantial conversation about it. I've shipped appliances on Ubuntu server using upstart and it's very easy for like 95-to maybe 97% of things, the process tracking works, it's easy, it's great but there are some odd ball sorts of corner issues and they suck. If you do something like reconfigure the network and any daemon is bound to a specific IP, you have to know exactly which daemons care about it and you have to tell them to do something. Another I can think of that we encountered was that the script that mounted a crypto filesystem could return before the filesystem was fully ready, there was some OS stuff going on that had to settle down (using cryptmount) so we'd mount it and then check before emitting an event, simply doing something based upon "started cryptmount" was flawed.. It's all little stuff but kind of wonky, upstart is fairly simple though and you could work around it. Have you ever looked at /etc/init/failsafe.conf ? What exactly is correct about that? Looks like it's just an outright delay, hope it's long enough to work but short enough to not anger you. It's a prime example of something Upstart does that's just sort of odd. They seem like solvable issues though, no idea why that never happened.

[profoundWHALE]

so... let me see if i got this right. you put display server, add display protocol on top of it and then add protocol handling compositors on top of protocol. grats, you just created X11 with all its flaws. ohh, wait... we already have that and it sucks

if you simply add mir compositor on top of wayland.... sheesh, naaaaahhhh.... that would be too smart

If I remember correctly, Wayland follows Unix principles. It has one job and it does it well.

[ObiWan]

Are you implying that Gnome has at least 100 000 developers? They are certainly not doing a decent job with such man power.

100 developers and 99900 people discussing what feature to remove next to please the tablet user.

[felipe]

Believe or not GNU/Linux systems is moving away from POSIX standard, could be a good thing or not, anyways we should evolve and move forward. If the GNULinux systems are crap in 2 or more years, we can always burn it out and start over.

[caligula]

Oh! Yeah, I was very confused by his comment, but I tried to answer him as best as I could. :P But now I see that he must've thought I meant the Steam client.

Sorry. I kind of thought the Steam Linux client is called Steam OS.