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A Major Music Company Now Backs Systemd In Debian

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  • phoronix
    started a topic A Major Music Company Now Backs Systemd In Debian

    A Major Music Company Now Backs Systemd In Debian

    Phoronix: A Major Music Company Now Backs Systemd In Debian

    Yesterday on Phoronix I mentioned Debian looked to be leaning in favor of using systemd over Upstart for its default init system given the latest comments by the technical committee members. The latest support for systemd in Debian comes from a streaming music company that's a major user of Debian GNU/Linux...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTU3NTU

  • mrugiero
    replied
    Originally posted by yogi_berra View Post
    If you're writing code that you expect people to use, you have a responsibility to fix it. If you don't want that responsibility but still want to subject the world to your broken code than you are just a worthless shitheal that can fuck right the hell off.
    Nobody puts a gun in your head to make you run the code. Also, as already mentioned, there is the "this software is provided AS IS" clause.
    You using it: A) is not my call and B) gives me nothing, aside from self-realization, if and only if I feel better knowing my code was useful.
    Me fixing it: A) is my call, not yours and B) is not my obligation. If I post code out there, I already made a gift, I shouldn't be expected to do anything else. I'll do anything else IF I WANT TO. You know, free software programmers are not your slaves.
    Last edited by mrugiero; 01-22-2014, 02:37 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • mark45
    replied
    Originally posted by yogi_berra View Post
    If you're writing code that you expect people to use, you have a responsibility to fix it. If you don't want that responsibility but still want to subject the world to your broken code than you are just a worthless shitheal that can fuck right the hell off.
    For shitheads like you there's an explicit mention in the GPL and in open source software in general:

    Code:
    This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
        but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
        MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
        GNU General Public License for more details.
    Even proprietary corps like Microsoft write such eulas that they aren't responsible for anything, except in very limited cases with minimal responsibility.

    Leave a comment:


  • yogi_berra
    replied
    Originally posted by mrugiero View Post
    If I'm working as a volunteer programmer, I have no responsibility towards you. When you understand this, you'll come to the conclusion you are not my customer, and expecting to be treated like one is but some cocky self-entitlement. Being a volunteer means your will to work on it is your only motivation. What pressure would you put on the "service provider" to be heard? A real customer can take his money away, and that's how he's listened by the service provider. Like it or not, if a volunteer tells you "I will not fix this bug because I don't like working on this", you'll have to live with that. The programmer can quit and the only thing he loses is a hobby, and he might look for another project to fulfill that. You can stop using his software. And you know how will it affect the programmer? He will stop getting updates on the bug he doesn't intend to fix: profit.
    If you're writing code that you expect people to use, you have a responsibility to fix it. If you don't want that responsibility but still want to subject the world to your broken code than you are just a worthless shitheal that can fuck right the hell off.

    Leave a comment:


  • yogi_berra
    replied
    Originally posted by tuubi View Post
    PS: "Deal with it" does not lend any weight to whatever precedes it. The phrase is completely useless in a serious discussion or debate. Deal with it.
    You're on phoronix, a forum filled with batshit crazy morons with wild speculation about software and you are complaining that one person isn't taking your opinion seriously?

    Perspective, get some.

    Leave a comment:


  • mrugiero
    replied
    Originally posted by yogi_berra View Post
    If you're working as a volunteer programmer, you're customers are the people using your software. Deal with it.
    If I'm working as a volunteer programmer, I have no responsibility towards you. When you understand this, you'll come to the conclusion you are not my customer, and expecting to be treated like one is but some cocky self-entitlement. Being a volunteer means your will to work on it is your only motivation. What pressure would you put on the "service provider" to be heard? A real customer can take his money away, and that's how he's listened by the service provider. Like it or not, if a volunteer tells you "I will not fix this bug because I don't like working on this", you'll have to live with that. The programmer can quit and the only thing he loses is a hobby, and he might look for another project to fulfill that. You can stop using his software. And you know how will it affect the programmer? He will stop getting updates on the bug he doesn't intend to fix: profit.

    Leave a comment:


  • tuubi
    replied
    Originally posted by yogi_berra View Post
    If you're working as a volunteer programmer, you're customers are the people using your software. Deal with it.
    Taking part in an open source software project as a hobby has nothing to do with work. There's no customer relationship, nor do users receive any rights outside of those described in the license. Deal with it.


    PS: "Deal with it" does not lend any weight to whatever precedes it. The phrase is completely useless in a serious discussion or debate. Deal with it.

    Leave a comment:


  • yogi_berra
    replied
    Originally posted by mrugiero View Post
    Nope. A customer is someone who gives something back for the service, period. If you make charity, the people you help are not customers. Paying or not paying is what makes the difference between being a customer or not. Firstly, because you will usually try to conform a customer better, because what you get is not gratification only for what you did, but a pay. If you do it just for the gratification, you can quit doing it when it stops being rewarding, and you don't need to listen anyone else. And again, nobody says opinions should be discarded outright.
    If you're working as a volunteer programmer, you're customers are the people using your software. Deal with it.

    Leave a comment:


  • mrugiero
    replied
    Originally posted by coder111 View Post
    I'd love to see Debian used in commercial enterprise data centers more. No matter if they contribute much back or not- it's still good:
    Let's see this point by point. For a starter, it does matter if they contribute back. If you are not a company, free software usually works as a meritocracy. It wouldn't be fair that companies get treated different just because they have more money. You put more effort for the software to thrive, other people in the project are more convinced you want the best for the project and pay more attention to your suggestions. As for the title of your post, I haven't seen hatred, I've seen people telling one should not pay attention just because it's a company. I've seen people complaining of the lack of Linux support while expecting to be heard by the same group of people they are giving the finger to, in terms of support, and I understand such complains if they are true (although I don't use Spotify, so I don't really care about what they support or cease to support).

    * They have a bunch of system admins who are or will become competent with Debian. And developers will be familar with developing software that runs on Debian. At some point they'll go work for other companies or will get promoted to senior positions, and they will use Debian there because it has worked before and that's what they are comfortable with.
    AFAIK, it's not the admin the one who decides which system to use, but the boss. The admin only makes sure it keeps working. At least that's how it works in my country, even though I didn't personally worked as IT, several friends had to deal with distributions they hate with their guts, because the job chooses the tool there.

    * When things break or there's something to be done in a hurry or when they need some expertise they don't have in house, they'll pay for some support or consultants- some of whom will probably be Debian developers or contributors.
    Can you guarantee that?

    * It sets precedent. Spotify is a known company, and them saying "we use Debian on 5000 servers" will make all other companies less afraid to use Debian.
    If the precedent it sets is companies using Debian and not contributing, why should we care? Also, it's not like Debian is a new thing nobody heard about, that they need the free PR.

    * Even if they don't contribute code or money, they have experience of running Debian on 5000 servers, so they will file bug reports or at least comment on what features might be useful, and those features will be useful to other companies that run Debian on 5000 servers. Debian will still benefit from it.
    Yes, this is true. Still, doesn't lead to "then, we should pay special attention to their suggestions". I report bugs too (although I report on Xubuntu or directly upstream). Most users report bugs when they find them. Does that mean every user should get their opinion specially considered? Because that pretty much drains time in pointless discussions and voids the meaning of "special". Again, nobody is saying "don't listen to Spotify at all", but study the arguments and ignore where they come from, and that's what generally basic logic dictates. On the contrary, some people wants to discard it because it's Spotify while some other people (your post makes me think you are one, but maybe I'm wrong) seems to think "Spotify is a big name, therefore they must be right, ignore the reasons as they are too mighty for us to understand".

    * Debian still has customers. Paying or non-paying doesn't matter. Ok, users, customers, call them anything you want. Debian as a project should still strive to make those customers/users happy. Maybe not all of the customers, and technical excellence is still very very important, and the freedom of software, but wishes and opinions of your users should not be discarded outright.
    Nope. A customer is someone who gives something back for the service, period. If you make charity, the people you help are not customers. Paying or not paying is what makes the difference between being a customer or not. Firstly, because you will usually try to conform a customer better, because what you get is not gratification only for what you did, but a pay. If you do it just for the gratification, you can quit doing it when it stops being rewarding, and you don't need to listen anyone else. And again, nobody says opinions should be discarded outright.

    Leave a comment:


  • coder111
    replied
    Why the Spotify hate?

    I'd love to see Debian used in commercial enterprise data centers more. No matter if they contribute much back or not- it's still good:

    * They have a bunch of system admins who are or will become competent with Debian. And developers will be familar with developing software that runs on Debian. At some point they'll go work for other companies or will get promoted to senior positions, and they will use Debian there because it has worked before and that's what they are comfortable with.

    * When things break or there's something to be done in a hurry or when they need some expertise they don't have in house, they'll pay for some support or consultants- some of whom will probably be Debian developers or contributors.

    * It sets precedent. Spotify is a known company, and them saying "we use Debian on 5000 servers" will make all other companies less afraid to use Debian.

    * Even if they don't contribute code or money, they have experience of running Debian on 5000 servers, so they will file bug reports or at least comment on what features might be useful, and those features will be useful to other companies that run Debian on 5000 servers. Debian will still benefit from it.

    * Debian still has customers. Paying or non-paying doesn't matter. Ok, users, customers, call them anything you want. Debian as a project should still strive to make those customers/users happy. Maybe not all of the customers, and technical excellence is still very very important, and the freedom of software, but wishes and opinions of your users should not be discarded outright.

    Personaly, I don't use Spotify, and I don't know how buggy or good their client is. I'm still glad they use Debian on the servers. And please keep in mind that there are probably at least 2 different teams- one writing the client, another writing the backend, so please don't blame the server/backend guys for whatever failings the client has. Maybe their server team is good and competent, and their opinions should be listened to.

    Oh, and I don't have much of an opinion myself in systemd vs upstart vs sysvinit vs openrc debate. I didn't have much time to research & play with them, so I cannot judge them on technical merit nor on political underpinnings.

    --Coder

    Leave a comment:

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