Originally posted by Adarion
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A Major Music Company Now Backs Systemd In Debian
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Originally posted by oyvind View PostHaving a free OS on their server farm, but not bothering to *support* a proper client on that same OS. F*** Spotify and their perpetual "preview" client for Linux.
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Originally posted by xeekei View PostIt's pretty obvious by now that they plan on moving to the webbased player, anyway. The Preview works fine until the webplayer gets feature parity. I however am angry with them for not paying artists more. But that might be the publishers' fault. Publishers are obselete and should go away.
cheap by instead getting stocks in Spotify.
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Originally posted by xeekei View PostI however am angry with them for not paying artists more. But that might be the publishers' fault. Publishers are obselete and should go away.
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Originally posted by teresaejunior View PostAgreed! I simply love sysvinit, because it is very simple and works well, but lately, I'm not too worried for what init system Debian chooses, because I hardly do a fresh boot, I mostly hibernate. The worst problem here is that we are talking about replacing something true and tried with something that just may not work, from the same developers of Pulseaudio, ConsoleKit, PolicyKit..., which are the only things that gives me lots of headache even on Debian Stable.
Originally posted by teresaejunior View PostAlso, from many many tests I have done about one year ago, init+readahead-fedora or init+e4rat still boots much faster than systemd with its own readahead, so this one benefit is mostly psychological.
myself, i couldn't imagine migrating back to sysvinit (or at least, i wouldn't want to). I've grown comfortable and happy with systemd. writing service files is simple. Systemd provides lots of information / has a nice set of tools... It's pretty good imo and has yet to cause me any issues - if anything, it's just improved my overall experience (and largely isn't even noticed / just does it's thing, well).
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Originally posted by LinuxAffenMann View PostIt's probably not a good idea to base technical decisions like that on popularity...
What's Debian waiting for, though? Pick a default solution and move on - there's no decision that will leave everyone happy anyways.
As for what they're waiting for, it's TC members to vote. Two people (or maybe one?) so far are not decided as far as I've heard.
Originally posted by Adarion View PostI am happy that Gentoo leaves me a choice of init systems to use. On my HDD installations I also tend to use e4rat and parallel startup and it boots up fairly fast.Last edited by GreatEmerald; 19 January 2014, 05:41 PM.
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Originally posted by Adarion View PostBest thing would be choice. Because some people might hesitate to use thing Lennart Poettering touched. Because some of these things are broken or they require a trail of dependencies you don't want. Besides, it leaves BSD (and possibly others) before closed doors which isn't all that nice. I understand the demand for fast booting but there should be ways to do that without all the hassle.
E.g if desktops like Gnome and KDE start requiring logind, and logind requires systemd as PID 1, how do people use those desktops if they're running upstart/openrc/sysvinit? Right now, neither desktop has a hard requirement on logind (though some stuff supposedly breaks without it), but that's likely to change... both Gnome and KDE are interested in taking more advantage of such systems, so I think it's only a matter of time before it becomes a hard dependency.
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Yeah, Gentoo. It's all about choice.
My KDE currently is compiled without dependency on systemd but I heard from a pal that he emerged Gnome 3.x and somehow systemd was pulled in and he was even forced to create an initrd (which is in my eyes ridiculous and medieval). I saw some initrd images of compiled distributions and they were so huge (about 100M or something) it was just stunned. My Gentoo kernel fits in 1.7... 3.5 MiB and the modules for rarely used hardware or filesystems in /lib/modules are between 5 and 12 MiB.
I just hope KDE will never force systemd upon me.Stop TCPA, stupid software patents and corrupt politicians!
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Why the Spotify hate?
I'd love to see Debian used in commercial enterprise data centers more. No matter if they contribute much back or not- it's still good:
* They have a bunch of system admins who are or will become competent with Debian. And developers will be familar with developing software that runs on Debian. At some point they'll go work for other companies or will get promoted to senior positions, and they will use Debian there because it has worked before and that's what they are comfortable with.
* When things break or there's something to be done in a hurry or when they need some expertise they don't have in house, they'll pay for some support or consultants- some of whom will probably be Debian developers or contributors.
* It sets precedent. Spotify is a known company, and them saying "we use Debian on 5000 servers" will make all other companies less afraid to use Debian.
* Even if they don't contribute code or money, they have experience of running Debian on 5000 servers, so they will file bug reports or at least comment on what features might be useful, and those features will be useful to other companies that run Debian on 5000 servers. Debian will still benefit from it.
* Debian still has customers. Paying or non-paying doesn't matter. Ok, users, customers, call them anything you want. Debian as a project should still strive to make those customers/users happy. Maybe not all of the customers, and technical excellence is still very very important, and the freedom of software, but wishes and opinions of your users should not be discarded outright.
Personaly, I don't use Spotify, and I don't know how buggy or good their client is. I'm still glad they use Debian on the servers. And please keep in mind that there are probably at least 2 different teams- one writing the client, another writing the backend, so please don't blame the server/backend guys for whatever failings the client has. Maybe their server team is good and competent, and their opinions should be listened to.
Oh, and I don't have much of an opinion myself in systemd vs upstart vs sysvinit vs openrc debate. I didn't have much time to research & play with them, so I cannot judge them on technical merit nor on political underpinnings.
--Coder
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Originally posted by coder111 View PostI'd love to see Debian used in commercial enterprise data centers more. No matter if they contribute much back or not- it's still good:
* They have a bunch of system admins who are or will become competent with Debian. And developers will be familar with developing software that runs on Debian. At some point they'll go work for other companies or will get promoted to senior positions, and they will use Debian there because it has worked before and that's what they are comfortable with.
* When things break or there's something to be done in a hurry or when they need some expertise they don't have in house, they'll pay for some support or consultants- some of whom will probably be Debian developers or contributors.
* It sets precedent. Spotify is a known company, and them saying "we use Debian on 5000 servers" will make all other companies less afraid to use Debian.
* Even if they don't contribute code or money, they have experience of running Debian on 5000 servers, so they will file bug reports or at least comment on what features might be useful, and those features will be useful to other companies that run Debian on 5000 servers. Debian will still benefit from it.
* Debian still has customers. Paying or non-paying doesn't matter. Ok, users, customers, call them anything you want. Debian as a project should still strive to make those customers/users happy. Maybe not all of the customers, and technical excellence is still very very important, and the freedom of software, but wishes and opinions of your users should not be discarded outright.
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