Upstart Still Has A Bright Future On Ubuntu Linux

[erendorn]

Wait, hold the phone. Systemd does power management now too? Getting to be the point where we're in the systemd ecosystem where the linux kernel is a dependency of systemd.

you mean, the init system that starts dameons is also used to stop them / pause them at poweroff and hibernate?
Wow.
Mind blown.

[gens]

you mean, the init system that starts dameons is also used to stop them / pause them at poweroff and hibernate?
Wow.
Mind blown.

why should a process have problems with the whole system being suspended ?
its (the process) being suspended at least once per scheduler epoh

[erendorn]

why should a process have problems with the whole system being suspended ?
its (the process) being suspended at least once per scheduler epoh

I honestly don't know (maybe dealing with network interfaces and such?). But given that pm-utils exists, and more to the point hooks in pm-utils exist, I guess some process have problems.

[gens]

I honestly don't know (maybe dealing with network interfaces and such?). But given that pm-utils exists, and more to the point hooks in pm-utils exist, I guess some process have problems.

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/pm-utils/tree/pm/sleep.d

bluetooth, NetworkManager and on my system wicd

and to handle modules that dont behave good
also LED's so they do/dont blink/glow


i dont see any crucial daemons
i see what is probably done wrong in some programs/drivers
also idk why NetworkManager would care since when an AP is suddenly ignoring it it would try to reconnect anyway, no ?
i mean, wireless is unstable anyway

suspend/resume should be a kernel thing, no ?

[erendorn]

http://cgit.freedesktop.org/pm-utils/tree/pm/sleep.d

bluetooth, NetworkManager and on my system wicd

and to handle modules that dont behave good
also LED's so they do/dont blink/glow


i dont see any crucial daemons
i see what is probably done wrong in some programs/drivers
also idk why NetworkManager would care since when an AP is suddenly ignoring it it would try to reconnect anyway, no ?
i mean, wireless is unstable anyway

suspend/resume should be a kernel thing, no ?

I guess there's also unmounting crypto / clearing important stuff from ram before hibernating, and stuff like that.
Maybe nothing crucial, but still needed anyway, and it fills quite natural to be configured in the same service file.

[liam]

Where you don't see good reasons several other people see compeling, technical arguments. Gnome3 caused fragmentation. SystemD is causing fragmentation. SteamOS will likely cause fragmentation (and eventually be the next target of hatred). This will probably be for the best in the end. (IMO the Gnome3 split deffinitely was.) We will survive.

I don't see the technical arguments either. What can upstart do that systemd doesn't?
The only fragmentation is b/c of ubuntu (surprise!). SteamOS, as I predicted, isn't based on ubuntu and, instead, is building it all from the ground-up. This makes sense since it's not a general purpose os (hopefully preempt_rt, as that would be great for consistent frame rates AND they could help fund its continuing development as gleixner has said he doesn't think preempt_rt has more than another year of development left given the current market).
I'm not worried about survival of the community as a whole (as I've said I just dont think canonical is going to be a continuing presence for many more years).

We have a myriad of choices in every part of the stack, and we will keep having that for a long time. That's not the problem. The problem is the millions of niche distros. We need a single distro with a default stack choice which everyone can target if they wanna release something for linux. That distro currently is Ubuntu, and that's what this is all about. If they were a tiny, unknown distro no one would care a bit. They can only cause fragmentation if they are big enough for it, so yes, their popularity is definitely a significant part of this thing.
I said it was a good read, not that it was absolutely tied to this thread.
My point was we need more balanced views like that AdamW quote and Sam's blog post.

We DON'T have a myriad of choices at every part of the stack. We have one display server, and one next-gen display server that all of the Xorg people were behind (well, had, prior to mir). Systemd is something that hasn't been tried before on linux. An attempt to bring a nice, consistent interface for system management that is extremely modular (unix-like) and brings functionality we've never had before (keeps track of system state at all times so we can get things like snapshots, reliable hibernation/suspend/shutdown, sandboxing, running different processes with different needs in different ways automatically, etc).
The problem with an overwhelming desire for balanced views is that it can give the impression that all sides actually have good points
Regarding AdamW, I don't know what referencing exactly, and Sam didn't really provide actual reasons for his position.

[lcomputer]

hile most Linux distributions have switched from using sysvinit or Upstart to systemd as their init daemon, Upstart continues to be happily