Debian Trying Out Xfce Over GNOME By Default

[intellivision]

Correction for a double negation: I am saying there is no currently maintained alternative to logind.

It is only a matter of time before Xfce etc start using logind as well.

Proof?
Do you have the Xfce developers actually, directly saying 'we're going to depend on logind' or are you just generalising and spreading FUD again?

[gens]

To expand on that, GNOME uses the D-Bus interface exposed by logind instead of a directly dependency on logind itself. So an alternative implementation is possible but none exists at this point. So unless someone steps up to do that, GNOME has no real choice. It is only a matter of time before Xfce etc start using logind as well. If you don't like that, develop an alternative implementation. Merely whining about it here changes nothing.

that is uses some IPC other then directly loading a shared library does not mean it is not a dependancy
"make your own copy of it instead of complaining" is not a valid argument
what if someone makes a better API, will systemd switch to it ?
plz stop trying

id guess and dont hold me on this but all that crap pottering is doing could have been done in separate programs/libraries (independent ones...)
to loosely quote "fuck posix and the established way of doing things. I have a keyboard and i will tipe"
no grand strategy mentioned, just a goal

for contrast the popular wayland that was in someones brain and on a piece of paper waaaaay before even a line was coded
systemd seems to get new functionality every day

[RahulSundaram]

Proof?
Do you have the Xfce developers actually, directly saying 'we're going to depend on logind' or are you just generalising and spreading FUD again?

How is it FUD? Don't fling it around unnecessarily and yes, I have talked to a Xfce developer about this. They are using ConsoleKit currently but it is unmaintained and they have plans to move to logind in the future but if you want to confirm this yourself, go talk to them yourself.

"that is uses some IPC other then directly loading a shared library does not mean it is not a dependancy"

I never said it was not a dependency. I said it was not a *direct* dependency. If you don't understand the difference, your reply has no meaning.

[gens]

I never said it was not a dependency. I said it was not a *direct* dependency. If you don't understand the difference, your reply has no meaning.

of course i dont understand the difference
its like saying "using the kernel API does not make you dependent on the kernel and you can make your own kernel if it goes away"

i can make you opengl bindings for... idk shell or even for use thru dbus or whatever
theres even libffi

like IPC matters, you still have to write a program that serves whatever the API demands
and you did say people should stop complaining and make a new program...

[RahulSundaram]

of course i dont understand the difference

I already explained this before. Since D-Bus interfaces are being used, multiple providers are easily possible without any changes in the program. For instance, if Upstart developers want to provide the same functionality via an alternative implementation, they can do so more easily than if it was a direct dependency. This is not a theoritical benefit. Before Arch switched over to systemd, they used alternative implementations for some features that systemd was providing.

http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/InterfacePortabilityAndStabilityChart/

[Awesomeness]

gtk2 is something entirely different. At least is is supportable. consolekit isnt supportable at all. xfce will eventually have to do something about that.

Considering that Xfce, at best, manages to make a release once per year, I wouldn't count on it that "something" will be a homegrown solution and not logind.

[Awesomeness]

Sadly, Razor-qt's days as an independent project are numbered.

After near endless splits and forks in the Gnome camp, a little consolidation is a nice change. Razor and LXDE on each own are rather crappy anyway.

[intellivision]

I have talked to a Xfce developer about this. They are using ConsoleKit currently but it is unmaintained and they have plans to move to logind in the future

Which developer? What did they say? Do you have anything else to confirm this other than hollow assurances?

[gens]

I already explained this before. Since D-Bus interfaces are being used, multiple providers are easily possible without any changes in the program. For instance, if Upstart developers want to provide the same functionality via an alternative implementation, they can do so more easily than if it was a direct dependency.

and i'm saying its all the same
you can rewrite a library and use it as a drop in replacement
example libjpeg-turbo

still you have to rewrite the whole thing


only diff if it can work without the service
line networkmanager can work without consolekit
then it depends on whoever is writing it how they find best to do it in their situation, what i dont know in xfce

[RahulSundaram]

Do you have anything else to confirm this other than hollow assurances?

I have already conveyed the information but haven't offered any kind of assurance whatsoever. Feel free to talk to the developers directly instead of relying on me.

"and i'm saying its all the same"

Any developer who has used the interfaces would disagree with you.