Debian To Switch To Systemd Or Upstart

[felipe]

Stupids Corporations, they are ruining linux

Why the fuck the harry potter from red hat is making software conflictive? And why the fuck the arch linux developers are using that shit? The solution right now is not to use Ubuntu(Or derivatives) or Fedora(Or derivatives centos) or either red hat testing system(archlinux, opensuse) until the war is over.

[Vim_User]

The CoreOS thing is actually pretty good, atleast in my opinion. If all distros adapt systemd, they'll all have same common ground, causing less fragmentation, less issues and more developer time to be put into something else.

What Poettering really is saying: Use my vision of the core OS. If you don't want to you are insane and your OS has to die. This is the attitude that will kill Linux in the long run, Linux was never "My way is the only acceptable way" and if it becomes that way it is essentially dead, another OS X or Windows clone without a soul. That alone is the reason why I think that Debian should use Upstart (or OpenRC), just to tell that guy: No, we will not bend to you, we will do what is best for our OS, not what is best for your ego.

[uid313]

What Poettering really is saying: Use my vision of the core OS. If you don't want to you are insane and your OS has to die. This is the attitude that will kill Linux in the long run, Linux was never "My way is the only acceptable way" and if it becomes that way it is essentially dead, another OS X or Windows clone without a soul.

I think they should just ask Linus Torvalds about his opinion and then unquestionably do as he says.

[Sergio]

The CoreOS thing is actually pretty good, atleast in my opinion. If all distros adapt systemd, they'll all have same common ground, causing less fragmentation, less issues and more developer time to be put into something else.

Sure, it sounds nice, although the principle holds for any init system, not just systemd (i.e. If all distros adapt <insert-init-system-here>, they'll all have same common ground, causing less fragmentation, less issues and more developer time to be put into something else.).

[Pajn]

The reason it grows is that it provides features that developers, maintainers and admins want to have, and that no other init system provides.
The reason it's harder and harder to remove is that it provides features that developers, maintainers and admins actually use, and that no other init system provides.

You cannot really count that as a con.

Well I can, because it provides features that doesn't have to be in the init deamon,
they would be perfectly usable as stand alone. And if they were, I would be able
to use the init deamon I prefer (or rather the one my distro provides) and still be
able to use the same features.
And also: I could write a server that uses those features and it would run on any
distro, not just a few.

So yeah, it's a con as it becomes a hassle for both users and developers.

[erendorn]

Why the fuck the harry potter from red hat is making software conflictive? And why the fuck the arch linux developers are using that shit? The solution right now is not to use Ubuntu(Or derivatives) or Fedora(Or derivatives centos) or either red hat testing system(archlinux, opensuse) until the war is over.

well, 85% of the work in Linux is done by corporations, so you can imagine what the development pace of Linux would be without these corporations, and where we would be now.
These are kernel numbers, but the situation is similar for the big projects, even in desktop land.

[pingufunkybeat]

Well I can, because it provides features that doesn't have to be in the init deamon,
they would be perfectly usable as stand alone.

In fact, many of these features used to be stand-alone and worked just fine.

[GreatEmerald]

The reason it grows is that it provides features that developers, maintainers and admins want to have, and that no other init system provides.
The reason it's harder and harder to remove is that it provides features that developers, maintainers and admins actually use, and that no other init system provides.

You cannot really count that as a con.

This. It's not "my way or the highway", it's "we created a feature people seem to like, and we happen to be the only provider of the feature at this point ? thus you seem to have little choice at the moment if you want the feature". It's not easy for other init systems to make use of those features, because the systemd developers prefer maintainable, clean code above portability.

[pingufunkybeat]

This. It's not "my way or the highway", it's "we created a feature people seem to like, and we happen to be the only provider of the feature at this point ? thus you seem to have little choice at the moment if you want the feature". It's not easy for other init systems to make use of those features, because the systemd developers prefer maintainable, clean code above portability.

systemd created udev and dbus? Really?

The fucking problem is that you seem to have little choice at the moment if you want to use udev. So you have little choice at all.

[GreatEmerald]

Well I can, because it provides features that doesn't have to be in the init deamon,
they would be perfectly usable as stand alone. And if they were, I would be able
to use the init deamon I prefer (or rather the one my distro provides) and still be
able to use the same features.
And also: I could write a server that uses those features and it would run on any
distro, not just a few.

So yeah, it's a con as it becomes a hassle for both users and developers.

But systemd isn't just an init daemon, it's a service and setup manager. There is a good reason why it has the features it has ? they're related to service management or the boot process of the system.

systemd created udev and dbus? Really?

The fucking problem is that you seem to have little choice at the moment if you want to use udev. So you have little choice at all.

The udev maintainers joined systemd voluntarily, and that move was beneficial since it allows tighter coupling of systemd with udev in order to use all of the functionality in a cleaner way. If others don't like it, they can always use the Gentoo fork, if they're willing to maintain it.