Debian To Switch To Systemd Or Upstart

[nightmarex]

Person 1: My favorite color is red. it is the lowest frequency wavelength we can see even though most people think it is a "hot" color it would actually be the coldest in frequency context. That makes it the most interesting so therefore the best.

Person 2: I like violet it's wavelength is small and fast therefor it is obviously the best color. Speed is very important when picking a color, what else could you possibly want?

Person 3: No,no,no! Green is the middle color and therefore is the best of both, duh! Balance is key when it comes to color.

Yup that's what this drivel all sounds like....

Anyhow, since I don't use Debian I guess it doesn't matter what I think. Seems like a matter the users should decide.

[gens]

Again Pingu, same thing I told gens above... Matter of scale. You're not re-implementing all of WinAPI (or GTK), you're re-implementing TWO DBus interfaces.

Also, while I can't speak for the quality of the product, Office apparently DOESNT depend on WinAPI since it supports OS X.

maybe it uses wine

in my eyes
API that is implemented in only one program = dependancy
"you can do it yourself" is just dumb as many people do not get paid to do this and still need to eat

[doom_Oo7]

Technically no, but in practice it does. It needs *something* that provides certain functionality, and right now, that something is either the unmaintained and increasingly broken ConsoleKit, or logind. Theoretically someone could write something else that provides the same interfaces, but since such a thing doesn't actually exist, it's accurate enough to say that Gnome requires logind.

What is the problem, since logind works quite well?

[gens]

The "two sides" idea is a macguffin. In and of itself it isn't always useful. Between two arbitrary sides there may not actually be any sort of equivalence.
OpenRC actually has one advantage over systemd in that it should be much more easily portable to other kernels. Upstart has literally no advantages over systemd. If you can find one I'd love to hear it.
If you want to really dive into the technical side: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/.

http://blogs.gnome.org/ovitters/2013/09/25/gnome-and-logindsystemd-thoughts/

That is an interesting post for a few reasons. One, it enumerates how/why logind is used. Two, it explains how systemd makes software that is both more robust and more featureful.

so... to clarify
you are saying i am derailing a technical discussion (that is not there) for my own benefit ?
and that is your reason to give me links to articles by the people that made this ?
you saying that we only need one perspective to make a good decision ?

that would imply you are derailing my derailing
what is really funny 'cuz i said i want impartial articles

also, less important to this reply, i asked for "low level" articles
that is about how it works and overview about how it goes about doing what it does
and you give me links about how awsome it is ?

just to be sure
are you insulting me ?
(am confused about that)


PS PID EINS! is about API's, not about how it works (from what i see)

[Guest]

I only use Linux and really like it, but times changes and maybe later there will be other systems that are greater, then you want portability.

I only used BSD and Solaris for a couple of minutes in a virtual machine, never on real hardware.

But portability is great. I like to keep my doors open and have alternatives and an escape route.

systemd monopoly won't close your doors to other systems which have their own init. And if there comes some new better system it will come with its own init as well. BSD and Solaris won't ever become greater than Linux, so you don't have to worry much for now.

[gerddie]

Well, well.

God! It's systemd vs Upstart! Nobody mentioned OpenRC. Nobody cares about OpenRC. Nobody uses OpenRC.

Not true, OpenRC was mentioned in the discussion http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel.../msg00678.html and it had even a GSoC https://wiki.debian.org/OpenRC

Just saying ....

[Pajn]

All of you who shout SystemD just for the sake of it:
Are you actually aware of the pros and cons with it?

For a distro like Debian I must say the cons totally
outweighs the pros and makes it the least technologically
appropriate choice.

For Debian I guess the best choice would be to fix
OpenRC or, if they really want to change now, Upstart.

[GreatEmerald]

And here's a lengthy analysis of the situation my Lennart Poettering:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/115547683951727699051/posts/8RmiAQsW9qf

[shmerl]

I will remove Debian from my disk (after 10 years) if they will switch to upstart. Fact that some Canonical employees are moving Debian into Ubuntu way, because of some political reasons is making me sick of them.

I've get the same feeling. Arguments about excluding people with potential conflict of interest by default voiced in that thread make sense to me. It's not a question of trust or distrust. It should be a solid rule applied universally to avoid potential troubles.

[Guest]

All of you who shout SystemD just for the sake of it:
Are you actually aware of the pros and cons with it?

For a distro like Debian I must say the cons totally
outweighs the pros and makes it the least technologically
appropriate choice.

For Debian I guess the best choice would be to fix
OpenRC or, if they really want to change now, Upstart.

At first tell us about your pros and cons, please. And forget about OpenRC, because it's about systemd and upstart only.