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Arch Linux Is Switching To Systemd

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  • salsadoom
    replied
    Awesome.

    Forget all the FUD and hate. systemd is an absolute pleasure to use, and it works great with arch and has for months now. Arch is making the correct decision here, systemd is very advanced and fantastic. It is not hard to use by any means at all, I'd even say it is simple. I am very pleased with this development.

    Linux seems to have a lot of whiners these days, usually uninformed to boot. I converted by Arch systems over months ago, and haven't an any issues. There were a few missing service files -- but I found them on the wiki or directly from the developers pages.

    Arch will be made better by this, and people should be happy with that.

    Leave a comment:


  • AdamW
    replied
    Originally posted by johnc View Post
    So what makes systemd so awesome?
    Oh, *so* many things. Here's just a few:

    * Much more sophisticated structure. sysv gives you...services, and five runlevels, and that's about it. systemd gives you targets, which you can have as many of as you like, and which can be nested, and which can have dependencies.

    * Oh yeah - it has dependencies. So services can be ordered properly and parallel started. upstart has this too, of course, but it still beats sysv.

    * It has _far_ better monitoring / investigation / debug tools than sysv, though some people don't bother to actually look it up so just assume it's 'harder'. It's actually much easier to know what's going on with systemd. I can list out all active units (services, more or less) with 'systemctl'. List out all installed units, even inactive ones, with 'systemctl --all'. List out failed services with 'systemctl --failed' - so it's super easy to see if any services failed on start, and which ones. Get detailed info on a specific service - including its state, all its processes and sub-processes, and log output if journal is running - with 'systemctl status servicename'. There's way more than this, this is just scratching the surface.

    * It has all sorts of cool capabilities for services. Literally tons of them, here's just a random sample. They can be set to auto-restart if they crash. You can have a service only start up if a given path exists, or a given path is a directory or a symlink, or if a specific kernel parameter is given, or if you're running in a VM (it even extends to specific *types* of VM). And you can invert all of those. You can set pre- and post- initialization commands for services. Services can set their own timeout values.

    * It does socket activation of daemons. What this means is that you can have a service associated with a given daemon: the service is set to 'start' on boot, but it doesn't actually run the daemon until something tries to access it - either via a given TCP or UDP port, or via a specified dbus method. So you save system resources until the daemon is actually needed, and boot is faster.

    * It has some really neat built-in charting tools: you can generate a bootchart right from systemd, and even cooler, you can generate a dependency map for the entire startup process, graphically depicting the relationships between services.

    systemd is freaking awesome. I don't want to get into whether it's better than upstart, because I don't know anywhere near enough about upstart. But it absolutely does have all _sorts_ of improvements over sysv. I highly recommend you read about it; systemd has excellent documentation.

    Leave a comment:


  • carbs
    replied
    I like the fact that systemd monitors daemons and if they fail restarts them without needing additional tools, scripts etc.

    Fast booting is handy when on a notebook and travelling to quickly lookup information as your not supposed to leave things suspended when on planes.

    Yes, the many breakages in Arch have been frustrating of late (on the weekend I lost all the files in /data due to a package upgrate of mariadb), but generally its pretty good and for my home server systemd will ensure the kids can watch TV via myth without the backend being down when I'm not around.

    Leave a comment:


  • bwat47
    replied
    Originally posted by AJSB View Post
    It's written by same guy of PA ?!? HELP !!!! End of the world is near !!!

    That alone is a good excuse to hate it already w/o the need to test it



    Boot real fast ?!? AHAHAH, LOOSERS !!!
    I don't care !!! My PC is usually switched ON 24/7 !!! Boot fast is something needed for Windows not for Slackware
    I really hope you are being sarcastic.

    Leave a comment:


  • ShadowBane
    replied
    Originally posted by adler187 View Post
    FYI, I think the terms you're looking for are "de facto" and "de jure."
    Mostly I just didn't want to spell check those.. :P

    Also, "de facto" presents itself in english as "the standard" and "de jure" presents itself in english as "a stanard"

    Leave a comment:


  • kayosiii
    replied
    Originally posted by energyman View Post
    besides BUYING distribution boxes so indirectly paying devs, reporting bugs and some small patches?

    No, but does that mean that just because LP is putting out lots of code any of it is any good at all?

    Are you kidding? Sound deamons have problems, lets create pulseaudio! Pulseaudio has some rt problems, lets create some daemon that fucks up rt for jack users! Pulseaudio has some problems during boot, write a new init system! One that makes things harder for everybody else! Oh and usurp udev, so in the future everybody will be forced to use systemd!

    Next step: registry?
    I am pretty sure you have your wires crossed on the rt daemon thing since I have been around on the LAD and LAU mailing lists while this has been happening. My understanding goes like this - the method for RT that jack currently uses introduces security issues such that distros such as debian don't want to turn it on by default... The current compromise is that debian based distros at least give you the option to turn it on when you install jack. What Lennart proposed (and implemented) was an alternative method of getting realtime privileges that offered extra security against some forms of attack. He wrote to the linux audio crowd to inform them that an alternative way of getting realtime privileges was available. The jack crowd understandably had previously been told that they way that they were doing things was acceptable and to my knowledge has stuck to the way that they are doing things. I don't think a daemon (other than pulse or jack) is involved in this process at all. -

    Leave a comment:


  • adler187
    replied
    Originally posted by ShadowBane View Post
    I think you are missing the difference between 'standard' and 'a standard.'
    FYI, I think the terms you're looking for are "de facto" and "de jure."

    Leave a comment:


  • AJSB
    replied
    Originally posted by n3wu53r View Post
    I never used slackware but I have heard it doesn't have dependency resolution with the packages? I'm sure there are tools that provide that functionality but, really that sounds like a pain.
    I use slapt-get utility and it works OK....besides that i also use my brain

    It was much worse some years ago...

    With time i kinda wrote my own handbook, it's a breeze to install and configure now any new Slackware release....can't wait for Slackware 14


    There was a phrase "If you learn UBUNTU, you learn UBUNTU, if you learn FEDORA , you learn FEDORA but if you learn Slackware, you learn LINUX" ...so, true...the instalation process is something more intimidating than UBUNTU or Windows where you are carried by hand....i still remember my 1st time that installed it

    I said to myself " Oh s**t, oh S**T !!! I must be nuts to try to install this alone !!!" after tested UBUNTU, Fedora, Mandriva , PCLinuxOS, XUBUNTU, KUBUNTU, Debian, etc, etc.

    But ended up OK, and no matter i continue to test other distros , i end up coming back to Slackware...






    Leave a comment:


  • AJSB
    replied
    Originally posted by RealNC View Post
    It's written by the PulseAudio author. That alone makes it l33t.

    Oh, and it also makes the system boot extremely fast. Not sure how important that is to people.
    It's written by same guy of PA ?!? HELP !!!! End of the world is near !!!

    That alone is a good excuse to hate it already w/o the need to test it



    Boot real fast ?!? AHAHAH, LOOSERS !!!
    I don't care !!! My PC is usually switched ON 24/7 !!! Boot fast is something needed for Windows not for Slackware

    Leave a comment:


  • n3wu53r
    replied
    Originally posted by AJSB View Post
    What's the problem with Slackware ?!?
    No matter it was one of the last distros that i tested several years ago, it end up to be my favorite...i'm using it right now

    Very stable, very snappy, very configurable, very easy to install blobs, (re)compile kernels, etc...aaahhhh....yes....and the audio simply works out of the box with multimedia and games

    ps:I have nothing against Systemd....then again never used it
    I never used slackware but I have heard it doesn't have dependency resolution with the packages? I'm sure there are tools that provide that functionality but, really that sounds like a pain.

    Leave a comment:

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