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  • #41
    Originally posted by liam View Post
    Poweroff was hidden in GS until 3.6. To make it show up go to the user menu and hild down alt. It changes suspend to power off.
    Yup and it was also very well-documented.

    Comment


    • #42
      Originally posted by fuzz View Post
      Yup and it was also very well-documented.
      Its really not very discoverable... You should never have to google how to shut off your computer

      Its also just annoying, its easy to say accidently let go of alt and suspend your computer instead. Just not well thought out at all. There's plenty of room in the menu, no reason to pointlessly hide important functionality.

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by bwat47 View Post
        Its really not very discoverable... You should never have to google how to shut off your computer

        Its also just annoying, its easy to say accidently let go of alt and suspend your computer instead. Just not well thought out at all. There's plenty of room in the menu, no reason to pointlessly hide important functionality.
        Funny, I didn't have to google. I read the manual. I also have a command line to shut down the computer....

        Comment


        • #44
          Originally posted by fuzz View Post
          Funny, I didn't have to google. I read the manual. I also have a command line to shut down the computer....
          You are purposefully ignoring my point. For a desktop that advertises itself as being easy to use, you shouldn't need to read the manual to find the reboot option in the menu I was of course able to find out how to alleviate the issue pretty quickly and installed the alternate status menu extension, but it doesn't change the fact that its kind of a poor default. There's a fine line between being clean and minimalism, and just obfuscating options for the sake of it.

          Just look at unity's system menu, it exposes many more useful options than gnome's, its very easy to shutdown/reboot without having to read any documentation:
          http://i.imgur.com/wqceP.png
          Last edited by bwat47; 20 July 2012, 01:29 AM.

          Comment


          • #45
            Originally posted by chenxiaolong View Post
            Could you post the entire output of yum when doing that?
            Here's the part with the missing packages:
            Code:
            Error: Package: libunity-5.12.0-13.3.i686 (GNOME_Ayatana)
                       Requires: /usr/sbin/ldconfig
                       Removing: glibc-2.15-37.fc17.x86_64 (@anaconda-0)
                           Not found
                       Updated By: glibc-2.15-51.fc17.x86_64 (updates)
                           Not found
            Error: Package: dee-1.0.10-18.1.x86_64 (@GNOME_Ayatana)
                       Requires: /usr/sbin/ldconfig
                       Removing: glibc-2.15-37.fc17.x86_64 (@anaconda-0)
                           Not found
                       Updated By: glibc-2.15-51.fc17.x86_64 (updates)
                           Not found
            Error: Package: unity-core-5.14.0-3.3.i686 (GNOME_Ayatana)
                       Requires: /usr/sbin/ldconfig
                       Removing: glibc-2.15-37.fc17.x86_64 (@anaconda-0)
                           Not found
                       Updated By: glibc-2.15-51.fc17.x86_64 (updates)
                           Not found
            Error: Package: libgdu-3.0.2-6.1.i686 (GNOME_Ayatana)
                       Requires: /usr/sbin/ldconfig
                       Removing: glibc-2.15-37.fc17.x86_64 (@anaconda-0)
                           Not found
                       Updated By: glibc-2.15-51.fc17.x86_64 (updates)
                           Not found
            Error: Package: utouch-frame-2.2.3-16.2.x86_64 (@GNOME_Ayatana)
                       Requires: /usr/sbin/ldconfig
                       Removing: glibc-2.15-37.fc17.x86_64 (@anaconda-0)
                           Not found
                       Updated By: glibc-2.15-51.fc17.x86_64 (updates)
                           Not found
            Error: Package: utouch-grail-3.0.5-22.3.i686 (GNOME_Ayatana)
                       Requires: /usr/sbin/ldconfig
                       Removing: glibc-2.15-37.fc17.x86_64 (@anaconda-0)
                           Not found
                       Updated By: glibc-2.15-51.fc17.x86_64 (updates)
                           Not found
            Error: Package: utouch-grail-3.0.5-22.3.x86_64 (@GNOME_Ayatana)
                       Requires: /usr/sbin/ldconfig
                       Removing: glibc-2.15-37.fc17.x86_64 (@anaconda-0)
                           Not found
                       Updated By: glibc-2.15-51.fc17.x86_64 (updates)
                           Not found
            Error: Package: nux-2.12.0-15.9.i686 (GNOME_Ayatana)
                       Requires: /usr/sbin/ldconfig
                       Removing: glibc-2.15-37.fc17.x86_64 (@anaconda-0)
                           Not found
                       Updated By: glibc-2.15-51.fc17.x86_64 (updates)
                           Not found
            Error: Package: utouch-evemu-1.0.9-5.1.i686 (GNOME_Ayatana)
                       Requires: /usr/sbin/ldconfig
                       Removing: glibc-2.15-37.fc17.x86_64 (@anaconda-0)
                           Not found
                       Updated By: glibc-2.15-51.fc17.x86_64 (updates)
                           Not found
            Error: Package: libunity-5.12.0-13.3.x86_64 (@GNOME_Ayatana)
                       Requires: /usr/sbin/ldconfig
                       Removing: glibc-2.15-37.fc17.x86_64 (@anaconda-0)
                           Not found
                       Updated By: glibc-2.15-51.fc17.x86_64 (updates)
                           Not found
            Error: Package: libindicator-gtk3-0.5.0-28.1.x86_64 (@GNOME_Ayatana)
                       Requires: /usr/sbin/ldconfig
                       Removing: glibc-2.15-37.fc17.x86_64 (@anaconda-0)
                           Not found
                       Updated By: glibc-2.15-51.fc17.x86_64 (updates)
                           Not found
            Error: Package: libunity-misc-4.0.4-5.1.x86_64 (@GNOME_Ayatana)
                       Requires: /usr/sbin/ldconfig
                       Removing: glibc-2.15-37.fc17.x86_64 (@anaconda-0)
                           Not found
                       Updated By: glibc-2.15-51.fc17.x86_64 (updates)
                           Not found
            Error: Package: libunity-misc-4.0.4-5.1.i686 (GNOME_Ayatana)
                       Requires: /usr/sbin/ldconfig
                       Removing: glibc-2.15-37.fc17.x86_64 (@anaconda-0)
                           Not found
                       Updated By: glibc-2.15-51.fc17.x86_64 (updates)
                           Not found
            Error: Package: libXfixes-ubuntu-5.0-1.2.x86_64 (@GNOME_Ayatana)
                       Requires: /usr/sbin/ldconfig
                       Removing: glibc-2.15-37.fc17.x86_64 (@anaconda-0)
                           Not found
                       Updated By: glibc-2.15-51.fc17.x86_64 (updates)
                           Not found
            Error: Package: dee-1.0.10-18.1.i686 (GNOME_Ayatana)
                       Requires: /usr/sbin/ldconfig
                       Removing: glibc-2.15-37.fc17.x86_64 (@anaconda-0)
                           Not found
                       Updated By: glibc-2.15-51.fc17.x86_64 (updates)
                           Not found
            Error: Package: libdbusmenu-glib-0.6.2-8.1.i686 (GNOME_Ayatana)
                       Requires: /usr/sbin/ldconfig
                       Removing: glibc-2.15-37.fc17.x86_64 (@anaconda-0)
                           Not found
                       Updated By: glibc-2.15-51.fc17.x86_64 (updates)
                           Not found
            Error: Package: utouch-frame-2.2.3-16.2.i686 (GNOME_Ayatana)
                       Requires: /usr/sbin/ldconfig
                       Removing: glibc-2.15-37.fc17.x86_64 (@anaconda-0)
                           Not found
                       Updated By: glibc-2.15-51.fc17.x86_64 (updates)
                           Not found
            Error: Package: compiz-0.9.7.8-66.2.i686 (GNOME_Ayatana)
                       Requires: /usr/sbin/ldconfig
                       Removing: glibc-2.15-37.fc17.x86_64 (@anaconda-0)
                           Not found
                       Updated By: glibc-2.15-51.fc17.x86_64 (updates)
                           Not found
            Error: Package: libindicator-gtk3-0.5.0-28.1.i686 (GNOME_Ayatana)
                       Requires: /usr/sbin/ldconfig
                       Removing: glibc-2.15-37.fc17.x86_64 (@anaconda-0)
                           Not found
                       Updated By: glibc-2.15-51.fc17.x86_64 (updates)
                           Not found
            Error: Package: bamf3-0.2.118-6.1.i686 (GNOME_Ayatana)
                       Requires: /usr/sbin/ldconfig
                       Removing: glibc-2.15-37.fc17.x86_64 (@anaconda-0)
                           Not found
                       Updated By: glibc-2.15-51.fc17.x86_64 (updates)
                           Not found
            Error: Package: bamf3-0.2.118-6.1.x86_64 (@GNOME_Ayatana)
                       Requires: /usr/sbin/ldconfig
                       Removing: glibc-2.15-37.fc17.x86_64 (@anaconda-0)
                           Not found
                       Updated By: glibc-2.15-51.fc17.x86_64 (updates)
                           Not found
            Error: Package: utouch-geis-2.2.10-29.2.i686 (GNOME_Ayatana)
                       Requires: /usr/sbin/ldconfig
                       Removing: glibc-2.15-37.fc17.x86_64 (@anaconda-0)
                           Not found
                       Updated By: glibc-2.15-51.fc17.x86_64 (updates)
                           Not found
            Error: Package: utouch-geis-2.2.10-29.2.x86_64 (@GNOME_Ayatana)
                       Requires: /usr/sbin/ldconfig
                       Removing: glibc-2.15-37.fc17.x86_64 (@anaconda-0)
                           Not found
                       Updated By: glibc-2.15-51.fc17.x86_64 (updates)
                           Not found
            Error: Package: 1:metacity-2.34.1-9.1.x86_64 (@GNOME_Ayatana)
                       Requires: /usr/sbin/ldconfig
                       Removing: glibc-2.15-37.fc17.x86_64 (@anaconda-0)
                           Not found
                       Updated By: glibc-2.15-51.fc17.x86_64 (updates)
                           Not found
            Error: Package: libdbusmenu-glib-0.6.2-8.1.x86_64 (@GNOME_Ayatana)
                       Requires: /usr/sbin/ldconfig
                       Removing: glibc-2.15-37.fc17.x86_64 (@anaconda-0)
                           Not found
                       Updated By: glibc-2.15-51.fc17.x86_64 (updates)
                           Not found
            Error: Package: libgdu-3.0.2-6.1.x86_64 (@GNOME_Ayatana)
                       Requires: /usr/sbin/ldconfig
                       Removing: glibc-2.15-37.fc17.x86_64 (@anaconda-0)
                           Not found
                       Updated By: glibc-2.15-51.fc17.x86_64 (updates)
                           Not found
            Error: Package: libXfixes-ubuntu-5.0-1.2.i686 (GNOME_Ayatana)
                       Requires: /usr/sbin/ldconfig
                       Removing: glibc-2.15-37.fc17.x86_64 (@anaconda-0)
                           Not found
                       Updated By: glibc-2.15-51.fc17.x86_64 (updates)
                           Not found
            Error: Package: utouch-evemu-1.0.9-5.1.x86_64 (@GNOME_Ayatana)
                       Requires: /usr/sbin/ldconfig
                       Removing: glibc-2.15-37.fc17.x86_64 (@anaconda-0)
                           Not found
                       Updated By: glibc-2.15-51.fc17.x86_64 (updates)
                           Not found
             You could try using --skip-broken to work around the problem
             You could try running: rpm -Va --nofiles --nodigest

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by zerothis View Post
              Canonical really does want to replace Microsoft.
              Microsoft has developers who work on all parts of the OS. Canonical only has a somewhat significant amount of developers for Unity and affiliated components (e.g. Compiz) and employs no real Mesa, Kernel, or Xorg developers.

              Comment


              • #47
                Originally posted by Damian_Ivanov View Post
                That's because I use both opensuse and Fedora and I love OBS, which is open build service, not opensuse build service.
                And we do Fedora first since chenxiaolong is fedora only user. If somebody want to help with the suse specs we'll have the port in few days for suse.
                Well, actually OBS running on opensuse.org servers makes it the openSUSE Build Service. ;-)

                On a more serious note: While I'm personally not the biggest Unity fan, choice is good. So tanks for your effort.
                Regarding Compiz for openSUSE, you may want to push it into main Factory: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=771557

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by bwat47 View Post
                  1. Unity isn't a fork, its just an all new shell running on top of gnome 3.
                  thats a question of semantics, call it what you want but I dont like this waste of time, and dont can believe that ubuntu can do such big things and keep that thing getting better and better and stay at the same level like gnome 3 can do. till now canonical did only do that what normal distros do, build some installers build packages (and even there they mostly only repackage deb files) and use all the stuff from others like a distri should do. the only bigger thing that they made self, was upstream, and they failed with it.

                  And again even if you do that, just keep full support of the the thing you used to use. they have better kde and better xfce support than gnome-shell support today, thats not acceptable (for me).

                  Originally posted by bwat47 View Post
                  2. canonical created unity because they wanted full control over the direction of ubuntu's interface. Ubuntu tried to contribute ayatana stuff like indicators and notify-osd to upstream in the beginning, before unity and gnome-shell and unity were in development, but gnome wouldn't accept them. Canonical and gnome just had different visions for how the shell should work, so they went their own ways.
                  yes if you define that you dont want trays anymore and you get patches that changes or adds them, its hard to accept them...

                  they could have made all what they want in gnome-shell addons... if they want some features, without extensions in the main code base, you dont just send patches you try to bring it in the TODO list first ^^ or something like that.

                  its like I would send kde patches that the clock is staticly only be sticked to the left bottom corner because I think clocks should be there, and then be pissed of when the core devs dont like that idea... it would be stupid to first program it and send it to them. just talk about your idea and find out if you find enough friends of that idea.

                  But whatever the point was that I dont like it, and that therefore I want to migrate away, and I do still hope that unity dies, because 2 desktops kde and gnome are bad enough we dont need a 3rd, and yes because unity dont keeps up with gnome3 and always uses older deps its not really compatible to gnome-shell, and like I said ubuntu did other stuff that made me angry, too.

                  I also find it just megalomaniac to keep up with the gnome devs, it was gnome that to 50-90% made the big sucess of the ubuntu projekt possible, and now you stop supporting them, that just sucks...

                  I think if gnome brings a distro out, it had better changes to become a sucess than ubuntu making its own gnome, gnome is the dog and ubuntu is the tail, and now ubuntu as tail trys to waggle with the dog (gnome)
                  Last edited by blackiwid; 20 July 2012, 07:16 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Originally posted by bwat47 View Post
                    Unity does a few things better:

                    The dash's search seems more powerful, due to lenses. For example I love being able to open the music lense, type an album name and hit enter and automatically starts playing the whole album in rhythmbox I've been finding the music and video lenses very useful.

                    More efficient use of vertical screenspace

                    The launcher has features that gnome-shell doesn't have, like integrated progressbars, and better quicklist support.

                    Super key + number shortcuts for launching apps. Unity is far more efficient for launching multiple apps in quick succession than gnome-shell is.. In gnome-shell unless you install a seperate launcher, you have to keep opening the overlay, in unity if I want to quickly launch my 3 favorite apps its just meta + 1-2-3 BAM!

                    Messaging integration that isn't specific to empathy, pidgin has indicator support out of the box, on par with unity's empathy integration. In gnome-shell there's extensions for pidgin integration but they make my shell crash and seem buggy .

                    Also, while gnome-shell's slick empathy integration and notifications are nice, as a whole I find unity and notify-osd's notifications to be superior. In gnome I often "miss" notifications if I wasn't at my computer at the time, in unity the messaging indicator turns blue and stays blue until I've checked the notification, and notify-osd is a little bit less intrusive IMO.

                    Gnome-shell does certain things better of course, but I think unity is maturing into a great desktop and I now prefer it to gnome-shell. It all comes down to personal taste, both unity and gnome-shell are nice desktops.
                    Fair points, but I think you're comparing unity against "default" gnome-shell, which admittedly, is a total piece of shit. From what I understand of unity, it doesn't have nearly the flexibility as gnome-shell has with respect to customization.

                    There are a few things you've mentioned that I can't comment on, specifically those related to media, empathy, pidgin... however, the rest of what you've mentioned seem to be quite trivial modifications to gnome-shell. One could, in theory, write an extension to entirely replicate unity within gnome-shell.

                    I have seen an extension for gnome-shell to maintain notifications, for example.


                    I believe that gnome offers a much stronger platform for true interface customization than unity offers.

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by blackiwid View Post
                      thats a question of semantics, call it what you want but I dont like this waste of time, and dont can believe that ubuntu can do such big things and keep that thing getting better and better and stay at the same level like gnome 3 can do. till now canonical did only do that what normal distros do, build some installers build packages (and even there they mostly only repackage deb files) and use all the stuff from others like a distri should do. the only bigger thing that they made self, was upstream, and they failed with it.

                      And again even if you do that, just keep full support of the the thing you used to use. they have better kde and better xfce support than gnome-shell support today, thats not acceptable (for me).

                      yes if you define that you dont want trays anymore and you get patches that changes or adds them, its hard to accept them...

                      they could have made all what they want in gnome-shell addons... if they want some features, without extensions in the main code base, you dont just send patches you try to bring it in the TODO list first ^^ or something like that.
                      1. There is a real difference between what Canonical did with unity and a fork. First of all the only thing they have actually "forked" to my knowledge is the gnome control center. They still have the whole gnome 3 stack under the hood, they aren't using manpower to maintain a total gnome fork that like you seem to be implying. Canonical created their shell from scratch and avoided forking for the most part. I don't consider them to really be duplicating too much work considering how different gnome-shell and unity are. If unity was nothing but a copy of gnome-shell I'd see your point.

                      2. Gnome-shell extensions are great and all, but people overstate how useful they are when you attempt to make significant changes with them. For example look at linux mint. At first they tried to do all their customization using gnome-shell extensions, but they simply didn't do what they wanted well enough and they ended up forking the shell and window manager anyway. Gnome-shell extensions are great but the whole "pfft unity is pointless because it can all be done just as well with gnome-shell extensions" is a fallacy. Unity differs quite significantly from gnome-shell and this would be a pretty impossible task with just gnome-shell extensions. There's also the fact that gnome-shell and unity were developed around the same time. Its not like Canonical saw a completed gnome-shell and was like "yeah, lets just rewrite everything!" they had differences with the direction gnome was heading so they just took a different path. Fact is if ubuntu wants complete control over their interface, working with gnome wasn't gonna happen. Both gnome and Canonical have very specific views on how the shell should work, this split was inevitable and probably for the best, now we have to great shells to choose from.


                      Originally posted by blackiwid View Post

                      But whatever the point was that I dont like it, and that therefore I want to migrate away, and I do still hope that unity dies, because 2 desktops kde and gnome are bad enough we dont need a 3rd, and yes because unity dont keeps up with gnome3 and always uses older deps its not really compatible to gnome-shell, and like I said ubuntu did other stuff that made me angry, too.

                      I also find it just megalomaniac to keep up with the gnome devs, it was gnome that to 50-90% made the big sucess of the ubuntu projekt possible, and now you stop supporting them, that just sucks...
                      First of all, ubuntu is far from the only distro that doesn't always have the latest version of every gnome package on release. This is more of a problem with the 6 month release cycle than it is with ubuntu trying "not to support gnome". They have to be able to test and bugfix before release, new bugs and regressions can appear when you keep updating all the packages.

                      Second, they certainly haven't completely 'stopped supporting gnome', and ubuntu is NOT incompatible with gnome-shell, I don't know where you got that idea. Ubuntu still uses the complete gnome 3 stack under the hood currently. Just because canonical and gnome have very different ideas on how the shell should work does not mean they've completely split, ubuntu is still a huge userbase for gnome. gnome-shell is a single apt-get away.

                      There is no reason to hope "unity dies" just like one shouldn't hope gnome-shell, kde, or cinnamon dies. If you don't like it then you don't need to use it.
                      Last edited by bwat47; 20 July 2012, 11:23 AM.

                      Comment

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