Fedora 18 Will Preview A New Package Manager

[Withy14]

Thumbs up

Hi. I am the Fedora QA team leader. .............So, what would you recommend we do? Well, obviously, we need to spin up..............Sorry to be so sarcastic, but seriously. Yeesh.

Nicely said and as a former programmer (I would like to programm but it is too much stress to put into this area and also some deadlines have to be met or the company might suffer, so >I am programming just for fun now) I couldn't agree more with you. Developing some software in team is always very hard and instead of people being happy about new release and about seeing that the developers are taking care of their customers by releasing the updates they are bit***ing about it. Please all who want to sen some negative comment please first thing about the hard work these people are doing and also bare in mind that the system is free for everyone so the money for making this project to live are needed to be earned by other ways.

Keep it go

[blackiwid]

See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Chromium. The maintainer is Tom "Spot" Callaway who works on that effort.

Omg I tried to go for the link for the google packages, but I did not see that the first time, its not chromium its chrome, I dont want that... so here is a point where it sucks a bit, but ok I have to live with that and use maybe some non-pakaged installer or something crappy ^^

but one good news, usb-sound now seems to work, magicly hope thats permanent now ^^

[0xBADCODE]

No it doesn't. Performance limitations are by network and disk write performance, and yum will hit those limits just fine. You can't violate the network or disk by using super magic sauce.

What about SSDs and 100Mbps and even 1Gbps links quite common these days? I have some. It's XXI century, after all.

Everything can run out of memory. EVERYTHING. No exception.

I don't really care about cool theories. I care on result I would feel on my own skin. And I really care to suffer as little as possible from my choice :P.

As for "everything" I can give you at least one example where it's not a case. You see, on C you can use thing called "static memory allocation". It's more common for simple firmwares code, but once again, you told "EVERYTHING. No exception", don't you? So for me it's enough to find just 1 case to prove you wrong. In such case there is no memory allocator exists and everything is statically defined at compile time. So you can't run out of memory in this mode for quite obvious reasons. This approach used in high-reliability things. You would be unhappy if microcontroller who controls your car brakes, engine or whatever would suddenly run out of memory, right?

And FYI: I've used yum quite successfully on systems with only 64 MB, maybe even 32, though that might not even boot a modern kernel.

"Quite" does not counts. Even single failure on remotely controlled machine could be a problem, etc.

I suggest that you don't forget to enable swap. There should be no memory problems.

It requires some disk space. Possibly comparable to minimal disk image of the whole system. Minimal Debian/Ubuntu for example works fine on 128Mb without any swap. And I had no any single failure attributed to package manager. Unlike with yum.

Huh? Well if apt just goes through a blob mess of packages, that must make it EXTREMELY slow.... in fact, this would directly contradict your first point! Guaranteed!

Well, cool theories again. But on practice it's what disk-bound. So on SSD and fast network apt completes it's job in a matter of seconds.

And when trying to compare similar things fairly, YOU "suxx". You've got a bunch of preconceptions and are bring it out in an ignorant puke of worthless contradictions.

I just compared my typical usage patterns. Yum loses on them. I don't see why it's unfair to admit it.

[Anvil]

That is an EXTREMELY narrow minded point of view. You go ahead and use terminal full time. In fact, why don't you just delete X and everything that depends on it?

Fact is that IN ORDER TO COMPETE with microscrap, you need to support those users who are barely able to find the ON button. They aren't going to use the terminal for ANYTHING AT ALL NO MATTER WHAT. If you force everyone to use the terminal, you're DOOMED TO FAIL. Guaranteed.

Now go back to your terminal and have fun.

BTW: I assume that you're browsing with something like lynx, right?

when a Newb comes over from Windows to Linux they should realise before they install a Distro that there isnt gonna be many GUI Apps, Terminal isnt so hard to use if you use Google or man pages. Linux isnt windows.

They aren't going to use the terminal for ANYTHING AT ALL NO MATTER WHAT

im afraid there gonna have to use the Terminal.

BTW: I assume that you're browsing with something like lynx, right?

werent you ever told not to assume?

there's no need to yell either, my hearing is quite fine thanks

[blackiwid]

From your example, which package and who was/is the maintainer?

It is long ago like I said, in the past, when I write in the past, I dont mean 2 months ago, more like 5-7 years ago, it was not even fedora at this point, it was something like mandrake or suse (not opensuse) and maybe redhat distribution. Its in the past, so lets forget about it.

See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Chromium. The maintainer is Tom "Spot" Callaway who works on that effort.

I found that site, and thats the problem, only small at the last sentence there are the package I have to use, I am not used to test 3 different sources before I get what I want, or to read the complete site and look into the repositories to see what versions are installed. Maybe I am too petted by the german user wiki (ubuntuusers.de) that site/wiki is just great ^^

It is about elaboration and approach of the post although some questions are valid. The real issue is some people do not know how to formulate a good question with minimal perception. Reread your own post and see what went wrong. Regardless the distro of choice, research first before asking.

maybe I ranted a bit at the beginning but when I not talk to private people not official company channels I am used to have a bit a direct tone... a bit like linus said in his presentation he is also not very polite he says what he things also very direct but I am able to learn and to change my opinions when I see that I am (partialy) wrong, so I think thats no problem. maybe it is ^^

But before I say nothing I maybe go over the goal to get reactions, so I can learn and maybe others can learn some stuff too.

I dont flame against upstream developers most of the time, but distributions are something else... and I mixed it a bit flaming a bit feadback a bit suggestions to make something better, so I am not a troll or something.

I am just new to it, and wanted to talk about about my experince and about my fears and stuff ^^

and for some its good to get feedback what could be better for a beginner. that fedora wiki site isnt the best thats all... I know it now and its ok, but you cant alway rtfm to beginners at least if you maybe some day will become more sucessful as distribution as ubuntu is.

[blackiwid]

Askfedora is the site to go for questions.
I wish they would advertise it more.

thanx for your hints ^^

[finalzone]

I dont said all is bad and something like that, I considerd (do still) to migrate to fedora, so I am not totaly biased against it. I got maybe a bit more aggressive when you said you are not know what you are talking about, so maybe I am wrong on some points, if I wouldnt be a discussion would be pointless because it would be a monologe and you had to listen to and maybe sometimes agree to it.

I basicly had 2 points 1. was the past problems with rpm which was there (I mean the format or I mean maybe also the package qualities and the package distribution channels) which some guy agreed to on the last site somewhere, so it was not a totaly fantasised problem. Debian was a few years ago better in quality, maybe that changed I dont know about that.

From your example, which package and who was/is the maintainer?

Then there are some impressions I got as a migrator, I had issues I told, I dont understand that you defend the chromium-situation, why cant fedora either not write anything about chromium or link to the relative site/resource, both would be better than say there is the official (stable) thing thats totaly outdated and totaly unstable. That will happen to other newcomers too.

See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Chromium. The maintainer is Tom "Spot" Callaway who works on that effort.

I dont like this attitude, when I say something to ubuntu noobs or maybe even archlinux noobs or just people with problems and issues I dont have to degrate them each second sentence and I feel myself not personaly attacked like you seem to do.

It is about elaboration and approach of the post although some questions are valid. The real issue is some people do not know how to formulate a good question with minimal perception. Reread your own post and see what went wrong. Regardless the distro of choice, research first before asking.

[liam]

I also use softwarecneter very seldom ^^ because if you know the names its just easier to type in aptitude install mesa firefox epiphany empathy libreoffice, than open the center then search the 1. klick to install it, search the 2nd click to install it...

But if you search ONE Package it can be ok, to use it, its ok if you are unsure if you want this one tool, you have some feedback there a screenshot, you can think about it and maybe install a alternative...

but yes most of the time I use aptitute ^^

so yes I will install it (fedora) on one maschine (laptop/desktop) as additionaly thing. I see a few pros about it, better gnome-shell support instlaler that supports lvm (hey they are in this centory not like ubuntu where you have to use the alternative text-installer for that ^^). So I hope its ok. The one big thing a fear a bit, is that I think the community is smaler for fedora, if you look at fedorausers.de it seems one guy did make that, and there are infos that are totaly outdated, i mean really totaly outdated, there stands that in fedora gossip is the default (preinstalled) jabber client, while it seems that project is dead at all ^^.

while ubuntuusers.de is a really good aktive side, where you maybe not find always completly top notch wiki entries but much closer and often even really at the current state. Also the ubuntu wiki on the homepage from ubuntu looks better quality and quantity and even is eyefriednlier as what fedora has on his sides.

Askfedora is the site to go for questions.
I wish they would advertise it more.

[liam]

I am really considering fedora at the moment as a replacement for ubuntu ^^ but when I read that stuff here I get frustrated ^^. I want a good gnome-shell distribution, I think fedora is the best in this way if you like the normal gnome-shell and want the true gnome-feeling ^^.

I tried also arch linux but I had problems to install stuff that was experimental what under ubuntu with a ppa did work without problems at the same time. So I am a bit between the chairs right now, I dont like rpm and I think I will not like yum much ^^ so I thought no problem, just use the gui thing, I dont need a softwarecenter with preview images and stars and stuff, but if you say that crashes very often, that is not good in that point. ^^

pfff really hard days for gnome(shell) users. using always ppas sucks and have old totem versions and stuff because of unity sucks too. gentoo is not got any better than 5-10 years ago only that it has newer programm packages ^^, arch seems also not totaly good usable because there are earlier packages that work in ppas than you get problemles working packages f?r AUR.

Debian also sucks when you want the newest gnome-shell ^^ maybe linux mint? but to get it to make it a normal clean gnome-shell its also some work you have to do, because its basicly the distro for people who hate kde, gnome-shell (pure) and unity ^^ basicly for gnome2-lovers that need support to make gnome3 look more like gnome2 or something like that.

It really sucks for gnome-shell users today.

Fedora is pretty good. I've been using it for the last four releases or so. It is different from Ubuntu since it doesn't deviate from upstream much so you better be happy with that.
I rarely use gpk-application since it is so slow, has very filters and can simply start spinning. Yum is nice in that it is much like altitude, but it is missing a few features as well that require one to go to rpm (to look for the files included in a package, for instance).
If you want a different gui there is always yumex (yum extender). Not as pretty as gpk-application but quite functional. There are other guis as well, but you get the idea.
Also, Fedora has ppas, they just call them personal repos.

[blackiwid]

You describe a third party that either project has no control.

I dont said all is bad and something like that, I considerd (do still) to migrate to fedora, so I am not totaly biased against it. I got maybe a bit more aggressive when you said you are not know what you are talking about, so maybe I am wrong on some points, if I wouldnt be a discussion would be pointless because it would be a monologe and you had to listen to and maybe sometimes agree to it.

I basicly had 2 points 1. was the past problems with rpm which was there (I mean the format or I mean maybe also the package qualities and the package distribution channels) which some guy agreed to on the last site somewhere, so it was not a totaly fantasised problem. Debian was a few years ago better in quality, maybe that changed I dont know about that.

Then there are some impressions I got as a migrator, I had issues I told, I dont understand that you defend the chromium-situation, why cant fedora either not write anything about chromium or link to the relative site/resource, both would be better than say there is the official (stable) thing thats totaly outdated and totaly unstable. That will happen to other newcomers too.

I dont like this attitude, when I say something to ubuntu noobs or maybe even archlinux noobs or just people with problems and issues I dont have to degrate them each second sentence and I feel myself not personaly attacked like you seem to do.

Dont get it... why you cant stop saying that I have no clue about it. even if that would be true, you dont have to put it under my nose (is that a known english saying) always.


I did nowhere say that all is bad I did not troll, so maybe my critics are bigger than the real issue is, but I dont get why you have to be so personal. Is fedora your holy grale?

or rpm did you write rpm or whats the problem?