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  • Count me among those who have used Ubuntu and don't like it. Not that it matters.

    One question (honest one). People keep saying that Ubuntu is the best distro for the average user, that it offers the best out of the box experience, that the next release will be awesome, etc. Now, my experience from using OpenSuse at work and Debian at home is that...they are the same freaking thing. Same apps, same behaviour, same look (if I cared to tweak it to be alike). I have a mirror copy of my working directory both at home and at work and I have installed the same tools; from that point of view, I could work from wherever I felt like, probably the biggest difference I notice is the height and feel of the keyboard. So, my question is, what makes Ubuntu to be any better than the rest for you? I'm asking seriously, I just can't figure it out and personally agree with the hype theory, but I'd like to hear something more specific than "it's an OS for human beings", "it's easier to use", "best thing since sliced bread" and all that.

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    • just so you know, kubuntu is checking their patches and upstreaming things that will be possible to upstream in the upcoming release.

      So at least part of *buntu community acts ok (or begins to act so)
      https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/LucidPatchReview

      Also although their team is small they developed the OpenOffice KDE4 integration (which was stuck on kde 3.5 since how long already? )... AFAIK kde printer applet is also their work...

      Compare that to Fedora, which just ships KDE with gtk+ tools ... even gtk+ networkmangemnet applet is used instead of knetworkmanager ... and an ugly gtk+ theme, that doesn't even try to look kdeish (while there is oxygen-molecule or qtcurve)

      Sorry but I'm a bit tired to hear that KDE implementation in ubuntu is the worst one.

      I'm sorry but at least for KDE *buntu does more then Redhat/Fedora does. Redhat targets all it's new techs towards gnome/gtk+, and even doesn't bother to port their tools to Qt4 (which *buntu does with jockey, usbcreator, or the repositories selection gui).

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      • U is not really better in a general way. The kernel however is compared to Debian default kernels newer, without removed firmware and added with extra drivers which work with Debian only using external packages. It is not that clear how to compile U kernels for a noob on Debian, you need to know a few things to do that correctly. I also had to create some adopted Debian packages with selfmade patches from U packages to do so correctly.

        From the GUI perspectiy U and Kubuntu restrict the gui in a certain not default way which i do not like. The permanent running 3d mode with compiz or whatever does not increase stability and leads to more problems than the absolutely minimalistic extra features which are enabled by default would be good for. At least for Kubuntu there is a faq how to remove user restrictions from the gui to make it more personal if required. I dislike restrictions... Some call that polished, i do not.

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        • Originally posted by yotambien View Post
          Count me among those who have used Ubuntu and don't like it. Not that it matters.

          One question (honest one). People keep saying that Ubuntu is the best distro for the average user, that it offers the best out of the box experience, that the next release will be awesome, etc. Now, my experience from using OpenSuse at work and Debian at home is that...they are the same freaking thing. Same apps, same behaviour, same look (if I cared to tweak it to be alike). I have a mirror copy of my working directory both at home and at work and I have installed the same tools; from that point of view, I could work from wherever I felt like, probably the biggest difference I notice is the height and feel of the keyboard. So, my question is, what makes Ubuntu to be any better than the rest for you? I'm asking seriously, I just can't figure it out and personally agree with the hype theory, but I'd like to hear something more specific than "it's an OS for human beings", "it's easier to use", "best thing since sliced bread" and all that.
          While the apps obviously operate basically the same among the various distros, it's things like the automated installation of codecs and closed drivers are big winners. The ease of going from a fresh install, to one of hardware operating correctly, and media playback functioning as one would like is really pleasing in Ubuntu and Kubuntu.

          Point a fresh install at a media file, and it'll ask you do you want to install codecs to make playback happen. Click here and enter password there and hey presto, it works. The first time I saw this was with Ubuntu.

          Apt while not an Ubuntu exclusive, is golden.

          While not everyones cup of tea, I find the notification system really pleasant.

          They seem to take away the fiddly bits. And add the polish.

          For ages people complained that when they installed Linux they just couldn't get it to do the things they wanted it to do. People would ask how do they get this stuff to be useful and geeks would throw shell commands and bash scripts at them and expect your average end user to be happy with that. Ubuntu cast a shining light on the need to remove this kind of micro-management from the usual day to day. And they made it so.

          Other distros now also contain the little niceties here and there as well, but I think the underlying infrastructure for a users apps is provided in the most pleasing way via Ubuntu/Kubuntu.

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          • Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
            @squirrl and mugginz: my sentiments exactly. The difference with Ubuntu is that it works out of the box, without fiddling for hours, dealing with broken dependencies, missing drivers and so on and so forth..
            and that is/was nothing new when Ubuntu's hype-engine started. Ever heard of Xandros? Mepis? look them up. And if ubuntu is so simple and error free, why do they have forums full of people with problems? Heck, ubuntu users are even posting in the gentoo forums looking for help. Bad enough? Not really. For some reason the 'linux media' love to glance over ubuntu shortcomings. For some reason or another. Result:
            ever increasing discrepancy between dream (p?erfect ubuntu, best ubuntu EVAR) and reality.

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            • Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
              "How do *I* measure this"? "Teen kiddies screaming Ubuntu rulezz"? Hey, are you serious or are you just playing the dumbass?



              The most comprehensive usage statistics I am aware of are the ones on distrowatch.com and counter.li.org. Interestingly, both place Ubuntu at the first place, which matches my personal experience (I only now two people personally who prefer another distro over Ubuntu).

              Scientific? Hell no. Even so, there *is* evidence and it all points to the same conclusion: Ubuntu has eclipsed previous powerhouses like Fedora and Debian.

              That said, I'd love to hear if you have a more scientific way to gather stats.
              Distrowatch HAS NOT USAGE STATISTICS!

              They only count clicks on the ubuntu link on their website.

              Not a surprise that an ubuntu user does not understand that.

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              • Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                Launchpad is a project hosting service (like Sourceforge), not a build service. It is also the best thing since sliced bread in the area of project hosting: it is tight, fast and its features are out of this world (have you seen the translation service for projects? You can login and start translating pretty any project you like, just like that!)

                Also this doesn't provide patches upstream is pretty much bullshit. Take a look at http://patches.ubuntu.com/ and tell me they are keeping the patches to themselves. Take a look at any bug report, I dare you. They coordinate with upstream as closely as they can and actually *reject* a large number of patches to avoid diverging from upstream too much.
                if you don't send your patches upstream, you can host them wherever you want. You don't contribute back.

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                • Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                  Are you sure Kubuntu uses generic KDE without some 'special' patches (or it was just hit by broken packaging...)? I'm sure Arch Linux used generic KDE and there weren't such problems like in Kubuntu 9.04. Fedora is the worst KDE distro, because it's full of Gnome's rubbish.
                  no, ubuntu does not use vanilla kde. They completly destroy the very good translations with idiotic patches. For example.

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                  • Originally posted by energyman View Post
                    and that is/was nothing new when Ubuntu's hype-engine started. Ever heard of Xandros? Mepis? look them up
                    Did already. I've used them. And I still stand by my comments.

                    Originally posted by energyman View Post
                    And if ubuntu is so simple and error free, why do they have forums full of people with problems?
                    Ubuntu is the distro most likely to pick up inexperienced users. And I might add those inexperienced users should be treated with the same respect that the more experienced users are treated with.

                    Originally posted by energyman View Post
                    For some reason the 'linux media' love to glance over ubuntu shortcomings. For some reason or another. Result:
                    ever increasing discrepancy between dream (p?erfect ubuntu, best ubuntu EVAR) and reality.
                    If you think Ubuntu are going to get any free kicks then you're sadly mistaken. This thread being proof of that. Where Ubuntu has weaknesses these should be highlighted and then fixed. The same for any distro.

                    All I see at the moment is a lot of hate for Ubuntu's position as the shining light of Linux in the mindset of the general populace.

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                    • Originally posted by energyman View Post
                      and that is/was nothing new when Ubuntu's hype-engine started. Ever heard of Xandros? Mepis? look them up.
                      So basically you admitted that your problem with U is that it is (probably) the most popular Linux OS.
                      Why didn't they become popular and why U managed to? Might be plain simple; just read some network-theory. (Conclusion would be: just by chance, but since it was lucky, "losers" start to hate and bash it just because they missed the train.)

                      By the way, which of your many comments was not against the "freedom of choice" philosophy of linux? I mean you suggest that U is a broken piece of bloatware. Fine, but why don't you move on and leave its users "struggle" with it? Maybe because you just enjoy trolling.

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