Oracle Linux 10 Developer Preview Released With UEK-Next Based On Linux 6.12

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  • phoronix
    Administrator
    • Jan 2007
    • 67328

    Oracle Linux 10 Developer Preview Released With UEK-Next Based On Linux 6.12

    Phoronix: Oracle Linux 10 Developer Preview Released With UEK-Next Based On Linux 6.12

    Building off last month's release of Red Hat Enterprise Linux 10.0 beta, Oracle today published the Oracle Linux 10 Developer Preview for a first glimpse at this next RHEL10-derived operating system...

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  • Chugworth
    Senior Member
    • Feb 2019
    • 389

    #2
    It has always seemed strange to me that a company as big as Oracle would leech off of Red Hat's work and release it as their own, while not even bothering to include their own ZFS. All while they let Solaris rot.

    Comment

    • CommunityMember
      Senior Member
      • Oct 2019
      • 1375

      #3
      Originally posted by Chugworth View Post
      while not even bothering to include their own ZFS.
      Oracle has never claimed that ZFS can legally be combined with the Linux kernel (and never has). They have also reserved all rights to require others to license the ZFS patents(*). While Linux could re-license to allow a combined work, that seems unlikely. While Oracle could re-license to allow a combined work, that also seems unlikely. In addition, the approach of ZFS (combining multiple layers of a file subsystems and disk subsystems) is not considered the Linux way, so there has been additional pushback as to just combining such work even there was a change of license.


      (*) There is a question of when the various patents (and any derivative patents) may expire, which could allow a new implementation avoiding any additional copyright issues. If you want to help move things forward, perhaps have your lawyer do that research and provide a legal opinion.

      Comment

      • spicfoo
        Senior Member
        • Nov 2023
        • 721

        #4
        Originally posted by Chugworth View Post
        It has always seemed strange to me that a company as big as Oracle would leech off of Red Hat's work and release it as their own, while not even bothering to include their own ZFS. All while they let Solaris rot.
        Solaris was dying even before Oracle bought Sun and Oracle silently cancelled OpenSolaris. I recommend watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zRN7XLCRhc&t=2035s

        As for Oracle Linux, building off what Red Hat already does saves Oracle on development costs and uses the open source nature of the development to undercut Red Hat's business, both of which are advantages in Oracle's mind. They make their money on their proprietary heavily locked in databases so they can treat the OS as a loss leader anyway.

        Comment

        • kpedersen
          Senior Member
          • Jul 2012
          • 2708

          #5
          Originally posted by Chugworth View Post
          It has always seemed strange to me that a company as big as Oracle would leech off of Red Hat's work and release it as their own, while not even bothering to include their own ZFS. All while they let Solaris rot.
          It has always seemed strange to me that a company as big as IBM/RedHat would leach off of the free software community's work and release it as their own, while not even bothering to include their own Enhanced JFS. All while they let AIX rot.

          The answer to both your queries is.... money

          Comment

          • lucrus
            Senior Member
            • Oct 2013
            • 453

            #6
            Why they insist calling it "Unbreakable" is beyond me.

            Comment

            • spicfoo
              Senior Member
              • Nov 2023
              • 721

              #7
              Originally posted by lucrus View Post
              Why they insist calling it "Unbreakable" is beyond me.
              Terrible marketing. What else.

              Comment

              • skeevy420
                Senior Member
                • May 2017
                • 8635

                #8
                Originally posted by CommunityMember View Post

                Oracle has never claimed that ZFS can legally be combined with the Linux kernel (and never has). They have also reserved all rights to require others to license the ZFS patents(*). While Linux could re-license to allow a combined work, that seems unlikely. While Oracle could re-license to allow a combined work, that also seems unlikely. In addition, the approach of ZFS (combining multiple layers of a file subsystems and disk subsystems) is not considered the Linux way, so there has been additional pushback as to just combining such work even there was a change of license.


                (*) There is a question of when the various patents (and any derivative patents) may expire, which could allow a new implementation avoiding any additional copyright issues. If you want to help move things forward, perhaps have your lawyer do that research and provide a legal opinion.
                To add to what spicfoo said, in addition to saving on development costs it saves them on certification costs regarding developers and various security and standards compliance. They don't have to create an entire Oracle Linux Certification Program to ensure engineers are trained for their platform and technology. If a person is RHEL certified then they're Oracle Linux certified. Everything that Oracle Linux does special from RHEL can be summed up with less than one side of A4 paper. When it comes to commercial and government contracts, they also get to use RHEL's security and standards compliance which gives them a lot of liability from hacks and whatnot.

                With that in mind, adding OpenZFS to their ways of doing things would mean they'd lose all of those benefits. RHEL engineers aren't OpenZFS trained. Oracle would have to do all the work to create an Oracle Linux Certification Program as well as have to do all the work to ensure they stay standards and security compliant.

                The OpenZFS and Linux licensing is irrelevant in the context of what a distribution and company offers. What's relevant is how much money it'd cost. Intentionally spending money to go against the common industry standard to create a competing product and standard which may fail and end up as a money pit goes against creating shareholder value and not creating shareholder value is technically illegal in America. If the CEO succeeds then it's a success, if they fail they could go to jail.

                Basically, Oracle doesn't think they're good enough to take on RHEL. They're just trying to jingle their UEK keys to look enticing. Unfortunately for them, jingling keys only works with small children and cats. Instead, Oracle looks like the Cuck of the Linux world. SUSE and Fedora offer their Linux file system in great setups. Ubuntu, CachyOS, FreeBSD, and others offer their more universal file system with various levels of support. Oracle's jingling keys with a custom kernel

                Comment

                • Chugworth
                  Senior Member
                  • Feb 2019
                  • 389

                  #9
                  Originally posted by kpedersen View Post

                  It has always seemed strange to me that a company as big as IBM/RedHat would leach off of the free software community's work and release it as their own, while not even bothering to include their own Enhanced JFS. All while they let AIX rot.

                  The answer to both your queries is.... money
                  Well as it stands right now, who exactly would want Oracle Linux and what for? It seems to me that if they were to make it the best place to get a supported Linux operating system with ZFS, that would make the product more attractive.

                  Enhanced JFS is not really a good comparison because ZFS is something useful.

                  Comment

                  • spicfoo
                    Senior Member
                    • Nov 2023
                    • 721

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Chugworth View Post
                    Well as it stands right now, who exactly would want Oracle Linux and what for? It seems to me that if they were to make it the best place to get a supported Linux operating system with ZFS, that would make the product more attractive.
                    Oracle Linux is for Oracle customers who already have bought into their ecosystem and rely heavily on their proprietary products. You get to talk to one vendor for everything. ZFS is irrelevant for this conversation since Oracle databases are their own bespoke IO layer and does not rely on the filesystem capabilities.

                    Comment

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