Ubuntu Hoping To Remove Qt 5 Before Ubuntu 26.04 LTS

[anda_skoa]

I want to say that when installing the distribution kit, you need to give as much software as possible for the computer. And give minimal software to the user. then it will be the correct installation of the distribution.

Isn't that exactly what Ubuntu Core does?

[anda_skoa]

Please don't talk nonsense. do you think all Ubuntu users dream of providing remote access to their desktop?

You started participating in this thread by complaining about printing support.
In the next posting you said that this shouldn't be installed by default.

Other users and myself have pointed out that a lot of desktop users expect printing to be supported by default.

Now you started complaining about the next thing that you apparently have no need for without considering that others might.

you are talking about Ubuntu Core, but everyone will not be able to make such an installation.

This was a suggestion for you since you do not want to use a standard desktop install that has things such as printing.

the sysadmin will do it. it will not be difficult for him to fix cups, for example.

But you expect users who do not have a sysadmin to know that they need to install cups to get printing support?

the installer must select the necessary software for the hardware as much as possible. everything that the user needs, he will install himself

You just wrote a couple of sentences earlier that not every user will be able to start with a such a distribution and then install the things they need.

[Weasel]

But what's the incompatibility here?

Precompiled apps.

[kpedersen]

A pre-processor is something you run before feeding the result to the C++ compiler.
MOC is run separately, the header and sources files of a Qt application are consumed directly by the C++ compiler.

Thats not true. The standard C preprocessor is directly consumed by the compiler or output into a separate file (typically with .i or .ii suffix) too. Even M4 can be set to be consumed directly or output to a file as a separate step Check out the -E flag for i.e clang.

Likewise MOC can be made to generate the intermediate files containing the generated code or directly consumer. Its just a preprocessor.

Luckily Qt doesn't need any non-standard C++.

It does. The code that MOC reads in is non-standard C++. It then generates standard C++.

Multiple compilers from different vendors are used to build it in Qt's CI, even more by those using Qt for development.

Yep. MOC reads in the non-standard C++ and generates standard C++ as mentioned above.

What Qt does (and other frameworks do as well) is ship with several tools that make the life of developers easier.
More often than not these tools generate code.

Most GUI libraries do not depend on something like MOC. They use tools that generate i.e XML to load in at runtime. Qt is fairly unique here outside of other non-standard C++ approaches such as Microsoft C++/clr and Borland C++Builder.
Back in the day there were C++ generators (i.e Bx Pro for motif and old versions of Glade for GTK) but they were generally deprecated because code generation was messy as an approach.

All these are just convenience, to move tedious and/or repetitive work from the developer's manual labor into build tools.
If someone prefers do to the manual labor that is up to them.

Indeed. I just stated that I find the alternatives a superior option in terms of lifespan.

[Nth_man]

Luckily Qt doesn't need any non-standard C++.
[...]
What Qt does (and other frameworks do as well) is ship with several tools that make the life of developers easier.
[...]
All these are just convenience, to move tedious and/or repetitive work from the developer's manual labor into build tools.
If someone prefers do to the manual labor that is up to them.

Yes, the maintainer of moc answered some myths like "When writing Qt code, you are not writing real C++", "Moc rewrites your code before passing it to the compiler", etc. on https://woboq.com/blog/moc-myths.html

[anda_skoa]

Likewise MOC can be made to generate the intermediate files containing the generated code or directly consumer. Its just a preprocessor.

Output of moc always goes to a file.
And it only needs to run when the input file changes.

It does. The code that MOC reads in is non-standard C++. It then generates standard C++.

Nope. The files read by moc are also read unchanged by the C++ compiler.
It run in parallel to the C++ compiler, generating additional C++ code, not altering any.

I guess you got confused by the use of macro names with Q in them.
Each of those is a standard #define clause, a technique widely used in C/C++ programs.

You can easily look at those definitions, they are in qglobal.h

[anda_skoa]

I don't use cups, I'm saying it's unnecessary.

Yes, it is unnecessary for you. Not for those who need it.

you said that many people print it

Yes, many people print.
They reasonably consider printing a standard feature for a desktop system.

[reba]

Why are you so tight? You're getting into development, I don't understand simple things. You've taken a completely wrong course! you will not be able to meet the needs of all users in terms of software, this would mean that you have to install absolutely all the software that is available in order not to infringe on everyone. what is better than a user who prints documents of other users who, for example, program? Nothing. then why is cups installed, and for example ghc is not installed by default. It's not fair. therefore, in order to avoid all this, you need to make a clean distribution. the user will install everything necessary himself, or the system administrator will do it. there is no need to make a dump out of the distribution. the fact that you installed remmina by default, you did not do well for users. you must understand this.

They must understand nothing.
If an installed printer driver is too much bloat for you, maybe you should switch to a different distribution. Ubuntu is an entry-level desktop distribution. There are of course slimmed down docker images for different needs, but the default is a kitchen-sink and all desktop experience. Of course printing belongs to this.
Even on my arch btw install I add printing and scanning capability because I need it. But it did not come out of the box but I had to do it. Maybe arch would be a distribution for you when you want more control over the system.

[anda_skoa]

I don't understand simple things.

You've made that pretty clear.

this would mean that you have to install absolutely all the software that is available in order not to infringe on everyone.

Straw man fallacy

what is better than a user who prints documents of other users who, for example, program?

Printing is a standard action in a lot of end user desktop applications.
People who have a printer rightfully expect this to work when using an end user oriented desktop operating system.

Programming, on the other hand, is a very specialized skill which most end users don't engage in, let alone expect it as a standard functionality in their browser, email program of office application.

therefore, in order to avoid all this, you need to make a clean distribution.

We've already established that those exist, e.g. Ubuntu Core.

the user will install everything necessary himself, or the system administrator will do it.

As you said in a previous post, not all users can be expected to do that or have a sysadmin to help them.

At best we can expect users to install "apps" but not system components.

[Vistaus]

Precompiled apps.

Precompiled apps will continue to work fine. Seems like you're grasping at straws just to make Linux look bad and Windows look good.