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GNOME Shell & Mutter Broke Their Good Faith With Ubuntu

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  • #71
    Originally posted by spicfoo View Post

    How? Most ISV certified products don't come with any source code and why should I spend my time fixing something when the Linux kernel ABI breaks my application even if I have the source code? This doesn't make any sense.



    No, vendor LTS kernels maintained by Red Hat and SUSE have contractual obligations and fix the security vulnerabilities per their SLA. It has nothing to do with convenience.
    This is precisely the mentality that needs to be eradicated if you really care about safety, which should take precedence...
    I recommend reading this...
    Introduction Linux vendor kernels are currently created by taking a frozen snapshot of a specific linux release associated with a git reference or git tag, and then back-porting selected fixes as the…
    Last edited by woddy; 24 May 2024, 04:28 PM.

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    • #72
      Originally posted by woddy View Post
      This is precisely the mentality that needs to be eradicated if you really care about safety, which should take precedence...
      I recommend reading this...
      https://ciq.com/whitepaper/vendor-ke...ugs-stability/
      I have already addressed that marketing paper earlier in the the thread. Go ahead and read it. Your response doesn't address ABI stability nor does it show how vendor LTS kernels are unsafe. This is just FUD

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      • #73
        Originally posted by spicfoo View Post

        I have already addressed that marketing paper earlier in the the thread. Go ahead and read it. Your response doesn't address ABI stability nor does it show how vendor LTS kernels are unsafe. This is just FUD
        So in your opinion what the devs say. of the kernel is rubbish, while what you say is the bible.
        ""The Linux kernel CVE team recommends that you update to the latest stable kernel version for this, and many other bugfixes. Individual changes are never tested alone, but rather are part of a larger kernel release. Cherry-picking individual commits is not recommended or supported by the Linux kernel community at all."""

        However all these things are known to both SUSE and RH and everyone else.
        There is a big discussion about it and things will change sooner or later.​

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        • #74
          Originally posted by woddy View Post

          So in your opinion what the devs say. of the kernel is rubbish, while what you say is the bible

          Nonsense. What I actually said was Linux kernel upstream does not maintain a stable ABI and they freely admit that themselves and yes Red Hat and SUSE are very well aware of this and this is why they maintain their own kernel and that's also exactly why they are multi billion dollar businesses.

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          • #75
            Originally posted by timofonic View Post
            I'd say to fsck them like a plague. I get your point, but it's even a security vulnerability issue yo not follow upstream/main/vanilla.
            I agree, especially with recent clarifications from the kernel devs (basically backporting takes an insane amount of resources and considering how tricky some vulnerabilities are, you're not even sure what was backported is enough).

            At any rate, I don't want to defend the practice but I see value for nvidia and co. which turns into value for consumers.

            And yeah, if you're lucky, you'll live on the latest kernel with nvidia drivers and it will work... Until it doesn't... My limited experience of 2 PCs with an nvidia GPU I manage for family has shown that nvidia drivers fuck up once per quarter on average. And I know because those people don't have the technical knowledge to choose another initramfs on the list at boot. That was during covid. They are now on LTS and there is no problem (well, once in 2 years).

            The fact a multi billion dollar company cannot test all kernel versions under the sun, when they make the bulk of their money with Linux is beyond me but the reality is that it isn't... And having tried Arch before that on those computers... What a headache!

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            • #76
              Originally posted by patrick1946 View Post
              It is clearly fixing a bug. Did they really want to keep a broken implementation of NVidia for their LTS version? All this patching on their side made it not better. Because of that, I left Ubuntu.
              Nvidia cards are intended to use X11 on Ubuntu 24.04 LTS.

              For AMD / Intel Wayland is the recommended standard.

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              • #77
                Originally posted by Malsabku View Post
                Nvidia cards are intended to use X11 on Ubuntu 24.04 LTS.

                For AMD / Intel Wayland is the recommended standard.
                This feature doesn't impact X11 so it wouldn't make sense to hold it back because of this.

                More likely, Ubuntu are carrying some other patch which would need to to be refactored around changes here and they haven't allocated the resources for that.

                Otherwise, the patch that Ubuntu was carrying downstream but now merged upstream for 46.1 would be considered a lot more disruptive change, but that is accepted as normal.

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                • #78
                  Originally posted by fluke View Post

                  If you're not using the GPU for heavy gaming you would be much better served by a dirstro such as Fedora which regularly updates the kernel and graphics stacks, thus providing nouveau/nova + NVK updates within weeks or so as opposed to the Ubuntu 6 months wait (which can then still be outdated at release). NVK is still quite slow for gaming but for desktop use it is very good with external displays on nvidia outputs working smoothly.

                  As the main dev responsible for many ASUS gaming laptop improvements in my limited time, over the last 5 years I've been doing this I've experienced nothing but frustration from purchasers of new laptops trying to run ubuntu and discovering nothing works well for over 6 months or more or they have to jump through PPA hoops (such as install mainline kernel and break nvidia).

                  The unbuntur release model is not a good model for the rapid pace of hardware we're experiencing. It is forever stuck behind the curve.
                  I couldn’t agree more. It’s long overdue for Canonical to host their own up to date package repositories instead of kludging the glacial Debian.

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                  • #79
                    Originally posted by MrCooper View Post
                    Not sure what you're talking about. What broke?

                    It causes various problems for people.

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                    • #80
                      Originally posted by boPt View Post
                      I couldn’t agree more. It’s long overdue for Canonical to host their own up to date package repositories instead of kludging the glacial Debian.
                      Oh boy, I dont think that I can store enough sacks of popcorn for the drama that would be unleashed if that happened.

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