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Fedora Atomic Desktops Born Out Of Fedora Silverblue Success

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  • Snaipersky
    replied
    Originally posted by pWe00Iri3e7Z9lHOX2Qx View Post

    Have you thought about Tumbleweed or Slowroll from OpenSUSE? You get all the new stuff + easy rollbacks out of the box.
    It is utterly baffling that SuSE's update system isn't the default for basically everything everywhere. No in-flight packages, no lengthy rollbacks if something broke, it's always in a known good state, or a quick reboot away. I hate having a windows work laptop that has to rollback updates every month for 1-2 hours, and having infrastructure for restoring server system images that one has to submit requests to and wait for hours. Make a subvolume, commit changes, reboot. If something went bad, you're out a minute of your time.‚Äč

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  • Snaipersky
    replied
    Originally posted by User29 View Post
    another article without real explanation of the topic, or any insight or useful detail.
    Fedora is dropping the asinine set of names for their immutable variants (silverblue, kinoite, geode, etc.) and switching to something you can actually understand (Atomic KDE Desktop, Atomic Budgie Desktop, etc). It's all there in the article.

    Leave a comment:


  • pWe00Iri3e7Z9lHOX2Qx
    replied
    Originally posted by ssokolow View Post

    Hey, as long as Debian comes up with an apt-ostree so I'm not being yanked along by Fedora's eagerness to drop support for aging hardware and they hammer out a solution to Flatpak's design being so hostile to end-user patching of installed files (eg. a post-update hook), I'm all for it.

    One of the big reasons I use an LTS+Flatpak combo is that I want to be easily and reliably able to rollback if an update introduces a bug (Flatpak) and, for the things I don't do that with, I want them to be "pinned at a version where I know what the bugs are and I'm used to working around them".

    Having a non-containerized alternative to Flatpak without Snap's architectural misdesigns would mean I wouldn't be stuck on stale versions of things like Dolphin and Konsole with known bugs for years at a time (eg. the fix for "ejecting an optical drive can crash Dolphin" didn't make it into Kubuntu 22.04 LTS) because I consider it more acceptable than having to deal with updates I can't trivially roll back if I don't like them.
    Have you thought about Tumbleweed or Slowroll from OpenSUSE? You get all the new stuff + easy rollbacks out of the box.

    Leave a comment:


  • patrick1946
    replied
    Originally posted by Jumbotron View Post
    So for personal clarification....is Canonical's Ubuntu Core their version of an immutable OS built around Snaps even down to snapping the kernel, as opposed to however Red Hat is engineering Atomic Desktops ?

    And is this the future of Linux desktops going forward ? Seems a lot like ChromeOS-ification of Linux. Not saying that's a good or bad thing. Just observing.
    I use Silverblue since somw time and really like the division into the rock solid base system and the toolboxes for work.

    Leave a comment:


  • pWe00Iri3e7Z9lHOX2Qx
    replied
    Originally posted by Candy View Post
    Success? If it was a success, then there wouldn't be something new. I've never had the feeling that someone actually used it. Maybe from the entire userbase only 1-2%. The rest probably went Workstation, Xfce4 or netinstall something.
    Interestingly, for the ~80% of the population with general computing needs, I think the Atomic offerings are getting really close to being a great fit. Updates are automatic. They get their software from a nice GUI app store (for GNOME and KDE). Their apps have some further element of sandboxing / isolation.

    Now what about Phoronix readers? For many in these forums these immutable desktops are a big pain in the ass. Any out of tree drivers are generally more annoying to deal with. The Fedora Atomic options don't and won't ever support DKMS. Many people here want to tinker in ways that don't align with the goals of immutable desktops. But we need to remember that we aren't that 80% of general computer users. Immutable desktops could dominate the overall landscape even if we aren't interested.

    Leave a comment:


  • User29
    replied
    another article without real explanation of the topic, or any insight or useful detail.

    Leave a comment:


  • spicfoo
    replied
    Originally posted by Jumbotron View Post
    So for personal clarification....is Canonical's Ubuntu Core their version of an immutable OS built around Snaps even down to snapping the kernel, as opposed to however Red Hat is engineering Atomic Desktops ?

    And is this the future of Linux desktops going forward ? Seems a lot like ChromeOS-ification of Linux. Not saying that's a good or bad thing. Just observing.
    I wouldn't be surprised if noone here remembers this but Chrome OS came out with this concept much later than Red Hat. Red Hat just called it Stateless Linux back in 2004 and there was some movement towards it in early 2004. It took years of work on the kernel (device mapper, fscrypt..), filesystems (squashfs, fs snapshots, composefs..) and user space tooling (systemd, ostree, flatpak..) by a bunch of companies including Red Hat and Google to finalize realize it much later.

    Leave a comment:


  • ssokolow
    replied
    Originally posted by pWe00Iri3e7Z9lHOX2Qx View Post

    Yes, at least for the big corporate backed distros. Fedora was discussing a goal of having > 50% of installs being the Atomic varieties within 5 years. SUSE is going a similar direction with ALP, and Canonical with Ubuntu Core Desktop. There will still be a million other non-immutable distros like usual though.
    Hey, as long as Debian comes up with an apt-ostree so I'm not being yanked along by Fedora's eagerness to drop support for aging hardware and they hammer out a solution to Flatpak's design being so hostile to end-user patching of installed files (eg. a post-update hook), I'm all for it.

    One of the big reasons I use an LTS+Flatpak combo is that I want to be easily and reliably able to rollback if an update introduces a bug (Flatpak) and, for the things I don't do that with, I want them to be "pinned at a version where I know what the bugs are and I'm used to working around them".

    Having a non-containerized alternative to Flatpak without Snap's architectural misdesigns would mean I wouldn't be stuck on stale versions of things like Dolphin and Konsole with known bugs for years at a time (eg. the fix for "ejecting an optical drive can crash Dolphin" didn't make it into Kubuntu 22.04 LTS) because I consider it more acceptable than having to deal with updates I can't trivially roll back if I don't like them.

    Leave a comment:


  • ssokolow
    replied
    Originally posted by Jumbotron View Post
    as opposed to however Red Hat is engineering Atomic Desktops ?
    They use rpm-ostree, which is a non-containerizing frontend to the same libostree "git for your OS" system that Flatpak builds on.

    Leave a comment:


  • pWe00Iri3e7Z9lHOX2Qx
    replied
    Originally posted by Jumbotron View Post
    So for personal clarification....is Canonical's Ubuntu Core their version of an immutable OS built around Snaps even down to snapping the kernel, as opposed to however Red Hat is engineering Atomic Desktops ?

    And is this the future of Linux desktops going forward ? Seems a lot like ChromeOS-ification of Linux. Not saying that's a good or bad thing. Just observing.
    Yes, at least for the big corporate backed distros. Fedora was discussing a goal of having > 50% of installs being the Atomic varieties within 5 years. SUSE is going a similar direction with ALP, and Canonical with Ubuntu Core Desktop. There will still be a million other non-immutable distros like usual though.

    Leave a comment:

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