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Debian Repeals The Merged "/usr" Movement Moratorium

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  • toves
    replied
    Amusing that people are still arguing about this 50 years down the track. I think 7th Edition Unix had only root partition and a /usr partition (and swap?) The hardware it ran on was tiny - 64Kb ram and possibly 2Mb disk so saving a few bytes here and there would add up. I don't think /var was even a twinkle then. I am not sure whether that was a bsd or sunos or sysv innovation. I think once binaries went into /bin (I think no /sbin then), libraries into /lib and so on... what was leftover went into... ah.. /etc.

    Just about every flavour of Unix had a variety of file system standards which could be deceptive at times - System V.4 had 3rd party software in /opt (/etc/opt, /var/opt) but Dec OSF/1 placed 3rd party device drivers/kernel stuff under /opt while using /usr/opt for 3rd party software.

    The beauty of open source is if you have a better idea you can grab a kernel (linux, *bsd, minix, 9front etc etc) and a userland and refashion the world to your liking. After which you can proselytize your vision of the new world.🤔

    Personally I am just grateful for a heirarchical file system having started with CP/M 80 (2.2 and 3.)

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  • binarybanana
    replied
    Originally posted by billyswong View Post

    The folder naming no longer match what's inside perfectly is a very minor issue. Doesn't worth the breakage of a huge number of hardcoded path in various binaries and scripts.

    There are real Linux distribution projects that deviate from the traditional filesystem hierarchy. By order of time of birth: GoboLinux, NixOS, Guix. But none of them gain enough popularity to take hold or get everyone to follow their design. All of them created a platform where multiple versions of the same software package can co-exist in the computer without the software give itself a new name such as python vs python3. So they are tackling on real problems, not just aesthetics.
    You can do that without radically changing the file system layout. If you have multiple versions of python installed (2.7, 3.x, 3.x+1, etc.), then /usr/bin/python can be set to whichever you want to be the default python by using a symlink. Same goes for GCC or most other things that keep their data in version specific directories (/usr/lib/python/3.11 or whatever) or at least if the file names are versioned, like shared libraries stored in /usr/lib/libfoo.so.x.y.z.

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  • fong38
    replied
    Originally posted by cipper View Post

    I actually copied (or rsynced) my home folder into other PCs an impressive amount of times in the latest 15 years, and I never had any problem. Why would you expect otherwise? It is typical of systemd doing something unneeded, bloatware.
    That's not what it's used for. It stores everything related to user info, including user password, UID, GID, groups in one single file inside the user's home directory, allowing it to be imported 1:1 on any system using systemd-homed. This also allows things like encryption of their home directory if an user is logged out or the system is suspended.

    If you don't need it that's completely fine, don't use it then. But calling it bloatware because of that is rather absurd.

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  • cipper
    replied
    Originally posted by flower View Post

    systemd requires /usr/bin in the same fs as root anyway. as debian uses systemd it is not possible to use a different partition or fs anymore.
    great. so we change the entire filesystem strucure of the OS to comply with a single program, systemd, instead of doing the opposite: patch systemd to comply with debian standard

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  • cipper
    replied
    Originally posted by QwertyChouskie View Post
    systemd-homed is in fact a thing, and seems pretty cool from what I've seen. It makes users/user directories 100% portable, so you could e.g. just copy /home/username from one system to another, and everything would automagically Just Work.
    I actually copied (or rsynced) my home folder into other PCs an impressive amount of times in the latest 15 years, and I never had any problem. Why would you expect otherwise? It is typical of systemd doing something unneeded, bloatware.

    Leave a comment:


  • billyswong
    replied
    Originally posted by Danny3 View Post

    Then rename it to "Configurations" and move everything out of it that doesn't belong there to proper directories.
    If they don't exist, create them.
    Not having a properly organized root directory because of historical reasons is stupid.
    Especially when you have symlinks and you can solve compatibility issues too with them.
    The folder naming no longer match what's inside perfectly is a very minor issue. Doesn't worth the breakage of a huge number of hardcoded path in various binaries and scripts.

    There are real Linux distribution projects that deviate from the traditional filesystem hierarchy. By order of time of birth: GoboLinux, NixOS, Guix. But none of them gain enough popularity to take hold or get everyone to follow their design. All of them created a platform where multiple versions of the same software package can co-exist in the computer without the software give itself a new name such as python vs python3. So they are tackling on real problems, not just aesthetics.

    Leave a comment:


  • Danny3
    replied
    Originally posted by archkde View Post

    As with /usr, that's a leftover from a time where it had a different meaning. /etc really means "et cetera" because it was a dumping ground for everything that didn't fit elsewhere (such as configuration files, but also some stuff that's nowadays in sbin, libexec or proc).
    Then rename it to "Configurations" and move everything out of it that doesn't belong there to proper directories.
    If they don't exist, create them.
    Not having a properly organized root directory because of historical reasons is stupid.
    Especially when you have symlinks and you can solve compatibility issues too with them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Delgarde
    replied
    Originally posted by sdack View Post
    There are a few problems with systemd when /usr is not mounted at boot, but a pre-mounted /usr-directory should not pose a problem at all, or systemd's design would be quite limited if it had such a specific requirement as /usr/bin needing to be on the same filesystem as the root /-directory.
    Yeah, the problem isn't with having a separate /usr — it's with having an inconsistent division of content between / and /usr. Having /bin, /sbin and /lib being symlinks to their /usr equivalents avoids that problem, since it makes it easier to have a minimal rootfs (maybe even a memory-only FS) and to then mount /usr into it.

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  • TheMightyBuzzard
    replied
    Originally posted by Alexmitter View Post

    How can someone appear so old, yet so immature at the same time.
    You want to be treated in a mature manner, act in one. You want to be treated like an idiot, ditto. I'm happy to oblige either way.

    Unless you have an actual thing that the current directory structure is causing problems with (and you don't) then you need to shut your mouth. If you don't understand why something is the way it is, you are not qualified to say it should be another way. You're not even qualified to say it needs to happen on YOUR production systems, much less everyone's. You're talking from between the wrong set of cheeks.

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  • Alexmitter
    replied
    Originally posted by TheMightyBuzzard View Post

    Kid: This boat is poorly designed. We need to change the design to something sane and fix it right now.

    Everyone else: We're on it in the middle of the lake right now, idiot.
    How can someone appear so old, yet so immature at the same time.

    Leave a comment:

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