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Fedora 40 Eyes Dropping GNOME X11 Session Support

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  • #41
    Originally posted by Brittle2 View Post

    what is your gpu?, and linux is technically a competidor to windows so that explain why OFFICE isn't here, now adobe is hard loln maybe someday
    AMD RX 580, so no it's not any NVIDIA specific issue like it's regularly parroted here and elsewhere.

    The real reason such important software haven't been ported to Linux is that there's no money in it for those companies. That's also the main reason the Wayland transition is taking so long, not any strictly technical reasons. Linux on the desktop, outside of maybe Chromebooks, is basically nonexistent. PCs have to be sold with Linux for that ever change. But if that were to ever happen, the first years would be rocky, I think. Many would think that their computer is broken or something if they can't run Office for example. Windows has been a monopoly on PCs (not including Macs) for so long that most people don't even intuitively understand that there are other OSes. So no OEM has an incentive to go all in on Linux, many would just buy a different computer.
    Last edited by sindex; 19 September 2023, 11:28 AM.

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    • #42
      Originally posted by avis View Post

      That's asinine. You don't have this problem with other commercial OS'es.
      You don't? Then please try to install macOS 10.0 on one of the newest Macs (particularly the one with M1/M2 chips). Or buy AmigaOS 4.1 and try to install it on a 2021 PC. Or buy the latest ArcaOS and try to install it on a 2021 PC.

      Those are all commercial OS's too.

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      • #43
        This is a mistake. There are so many architectural issues in gnome-shell, that will not be addressed until upstream drops running under X11. Until that time comes, people will still need to run gnome under X11. I know the gnome developers thing that their project is too important to drop X11 compatibility, but long overdue. Upstream should immediately fork mutter/gnome-shell, and announce a X11 supporting LTS legacy branch that will be maintained until they fix all the wayland issues, which are too many to list. No one on X11 is going to complain that they're missing the latest random gnome "feature", and finally gnome-shell can focus on becoming a proper wayland compositor.

        As for me, I'm happy to use gnome either way, until a decent stacking wayland compositor is introduced (for all of it's many issues, gnome-shell is still the most polished out there, at least for stacking). Unfortunately, gnome-shell decided to stop working on wayland due to me using gdm autologin. Just as well, at least now I don't have to restart my desktop once a week due to all the gnome-shell memory leaks.

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        • #44
          Originally posted by fitzie View Post
          This is a mistake. There are so many architectural issues in gnome-shell, that will not be addressed until upstream drops running under X11. Until that time comes, people will still need to run gnome under X11. I know the gnome developers thing that their project is too important to drop X11 compatibility, but long overdue. Upstream should immediately fork mutter/gnome-shell, and announce a X11 supporting LTS legacy branch that will be maintained until they fix all the wayland issues, which are too many to list. No one on X11 is going to complain that they're missing the latest random gnome "feature", and finally gnome-shell can focus on becoming a proper wayland compositor..
          The issue is X11 as the whole is unmaintained for years as very few stepped up. Legacy apps depending on Xserver must run on XWayland for such purpose until they either switch running on a Wayland compositor for left bitrotting. Apple did that method before so why not GNOME or other desktop environment (Sway already dropped X11 support).

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          • #45
            Originally posted by Vistaus View Post

            You don't? Then please try to install macOS 10.0 on one of the newest Macs (particularly the one with M1/M2 chips). Or buy AmigaOS 4.1 and try to install it on a 2021 PC. Or buy the latest ArcaOS and try to install it on a 2021 PC.

            Those are all commercial OS's too.
            Apple is a whole different story. Something is either officially supported or you're SoL.

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            • #46
              cannot boot wayland gnome on vmware. is it going to be fixed?

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              • #47
                Good, it's time to move on.

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by Volta View Post
                  And dozens of unsupported hardware
                  Windows users have been using this excuse for years. Does that make Linux a toy in comparison?

                  You also can't install BSD on a toy duck. That is exactly what Linux is for! There is probably a distribution focused on toy ducks.

                  Originally posted by Volta View Post
                  Btw. last time I checked Linux killed so called commercial unix. Only AIX is still relevant
                  Uhh, in the same way that Windows NT did. Please refer to this ancient Byte magazine for the same recurring nonsense.
                  ‚Äč

                  Originally posted by Volta View Post
                  so where are your toys?
                  Being used by enthusiasts. I just said in my last post.


                  Originally posted by Volta View Post
                  Yep, that's why there's no BSD, Windows or macOS in HPC or serious computing.
                  HPC kernels are a mess. They rinse out any ounce of power but they are a mess. They are effectively toy kernels, unfit for anything mission critical by design. This is why they are mainly targeted towards simulations and research where any incorrect operation can be damage controlled.

                  As for "serious" computing... what's that? a point of sale system for a funeral home? Most guys here probably use Linux mainly for "serious" Steam DRM platform gaming. Is that what you mean?
                  Last edited by kpedersen; 19 September 2023, 01:55 PM.

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by finalzone View Post
                    The issue is X11 as the whole is unmaintained for years as very few stepped up.
                    I see commits as recent as a couple of months ago (and 2 weeks ago for one implementation). Is this not exactly what "maintaining" is called? There is less work than this done in many common GNU Coreutils.

                    Very few have stepped up to further develop Xorg because most enterprise computing (where the money is), doesn't need more features. They don't give much priority to HiDP scaling and more consumer-centric features.

                    Where the real work is in the modesetting / KMS areas rather than user-mode drivers and just like Wayland compositor "backends", the X11 "drivers" support that stuff perfectly fine. Not to mention, the work done on the wl_roots drm backend only looks like it is progressing because it is still playing catchup to the xserver one.
                    Last edited by kpedersen; 19 September 2023, 02:10 PM.

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                    • #50
                      Well, serious gamers probably want vrr support. Until those patches officially make it into GNOME the X session will be missed.

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