Originally posted by Danny3
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The way the Debian statement of change is written is to cover all usage cases.
but where possible we will include ways for users to disable this at boot (boot menu option, kernel command line etc.).
When the installer/live system is running we will provide information to the user about what firmware has been loaded (both free and non-free)
Originally posted by Ironmask
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Originally posted by ssokolow
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Bad news here "Code of Conduct" or "Ethical Code" document pick one. Please note it absolute pick one. Without having a code of conduct or Ethical code there is the follow problems.
1) Legal liability for anything the organization employees or third parties working with your companies employees could be applied to the organization.
2) Funding in a lot of cases by organizational rules cannot be given to another organization that does not have compatible code. No code is classed as not compatible.
Yes Point 1 is hell of a problem. Code of Conduct or Ethical Code allows legally drawing line in sand. That anything not inside the code of conduct the organization cannot be held accountable for. Yes the Linux kernel code of conduct and so on is drawing these legal liability lines.
If you don't like code of conduct the other option is some other form of Ethical Code.
ssokolow the horrible part here is the formal names bit comes from that non profit and companies do have to be formally registered and there are stack of formal things they need to-do as business to operate safely. This is really the same in most countries with business having do in business work place health and safety stuff where most of it is just to limit legal liability if something goes wrong.
Yes lets say someone losses their cool and tells someone on a mailing list to kill themselves and they do. Without a Code of Conduct or Code of Ethics document saying that its not acceptable the person running the mailing list could be classed as aiding and abetting manslaughter under some countries laws for an organization this could be 10s of millions of dollars down the drain.
For a long time these legal liability problems were ignored and many companies suffered in court over it.
So we have to have a code of conduct/code of ethics.... as some document that limited legal liability. Problem is how to write this document without causing more problems.
I am not saying that Linux kernel code of conduct or other projects code of conduct are perfect. The reality while we have legal systems that happy suing organizations over items that should be individual responsibilities we are stuck with the need for either code of conduct or code of ethics to restrain those legal systems.
Reality I wish this stuff was just politics not in fact legal. Yes how to handle closed source binaries like firmware large percentage of that is legal. The code of conduct or code of ethics stuff is large percentage legal.
Closed source binary firmware here is a fun point since it not open source you cannot audit it what happens if it has a backdoor and you did not inform the user they were using it where does that legal liability land. Yes Debian wanting no closed source firmware made this legal problem simpler to prove due care so remove liability.
Legal liability is the core of the "code of conduct problem" and "everything open source" problem.
Please note the Legal Liability problem gets more complex of course lets say you know that X version of firmware is flawed and that is the firmware on the rom on a card and you don't ship with closed source firmware to replace it(that does address the problem) and you don't inform user that the include firmware is defective are you legally liable if something goes wrong? Do note we don't have test case on this event yet.
BIg part of this is where does individual responsibilities start and end vs the providers responsibilities start and end legally. We don't have the ruling on this stuff. Debian has been very conservative.
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