Raspberry Pi OS Updated With Desktop Improvements, NetworkManager, Picamera2

[kneekoo]

Yeah... and I can equally say the Pi400 was disappointing for not having an 8GB version. I would've bought one in a heartbeat. But with how the browsers evolve (other software too, to be fair), I just won't touch the 4GB version. I have almost all the others, I have plenty of low-RAM Pis. So far they didn't come up with an update, so maybe they will add more RAM to the next All-in-One.

[Mavman]

P.S. Oof! I started programming on a ZX Spectrum clone.

Yeah, i've started programing on a Speccy also (not a clone, however). I have my good old 128k +2A back home... that was my first steps in programing!!! More than 30 Years.

How i miss those days......................

I'd love a ZX Spectrum Next, but the price is insane.

Yeah, that thing ain't cheap and, in my opinion, a bit disappointing.
I saw the idea being born and grow (even before it went kickstart) and, sad to say, i was truly hopping devs would have had a bit more vision and give us just what Pi400 gave us... that was what i wanted. It was years ahead Pi400 and it could have been much much better.

I really wanted and All-in-One... not just and outdated, expansive and mostly useless upgrade to ZX Spectrum...

well... there is a saying around here that says "God gives nuts to those who have no teeth"

[kneekoo]

Of course people can use the lite release if they want the most RAM available, but we're talking about desktop use cases - LXDE vs LXQt.

It just occurred to me that there's also plenty of literature that showcases LXDE and even teaches GUI programming in C, with GTK. So switching to another DE would require refreshing all the wikis, tutorials, updating a lot of books, their software utilities, etc. So they will likely use LXDE with GTK2 for quite a while longer.

P.S. Oof! I started programming on a ZX Spectrum clone. I'd love a ZX Spectrum Next, but the price is insane.

[Mavman]

- 20 MB is huge for a PC with 256-512 MB RAM. You can run a web server and more in those 20 MB.
- GTK2 is indeed very old, but it does a good job

Well, i can run a lot in my good old ZX Spectrum also and it only has 128K. It also does a good job and in that perspective 20Mb is the infinity (and beyond) ahahah
(oh and it also has upgrades - zx spectrum next being the latest)

Regarding the great searchable menu feature, lxqt has it... well i think that it has it since the conversion to qt (not sure... too long to be sure...)

But all in all, it does consume less RAM, but... if you put it that way where 20Mb are important then the best option is definitely the terminal (no gui what so ever)!!! XD

[kneekoo]

if i remember correctly it was about 20Mb - but it did have some improvements)
and one could argue the LXDE project evolved into LXQt and that LXQt is "more alive"
It has new features (which would free Pi devs from having to develop them all over again - like the new search feature on the menu)
(and i'm not even going to mention lxde is based in the old-dead GTK2...)

- 20 MB is huge for a PC with 256-512 MB RAM. You can run a web server and more in those 20 MB.
- There's no argument that LXQt is the next generation, but that doesn't take away anything from LXDE.
- The latest update to Raspberry Pi OS shows a searchable menu, so that's great.
- GTK2 is indeed very old, but it does a good job, it has security updates, and is available even in Debian Sid, which is "nextnext" - plenty of shelf life.

They will have to ditch GTK2 for something else, either when it will be dropped from Debian, or all the supported Pis will have at least 1GB RAM. But as long as they support their low-RAM products, I bet people are happier with having more available RAM than being unhappy with the GTK version. Their LXDE UI looks decent anyway, and it has plenty of useful features for most users. And whoever doesn't want Raspberry Pi OS, or Debian, can easily install another one of many options available in the Raspberry Pi Imager. I just looked and I was shocked at how many options they have.

The big problem with old stuff is when it's no longer maintained and it causes issues, but fortunately this is not the case with their OS. So I'm fine with the "ancient" GTK as long as they make sure everything just works, while saving me some RAM. I use a few Pis and I appreciate the low RAM footprint, especially when I open up a browser.

[Mavman]

1. They customized LXDE for their needs and it works just fine
2. LXDE needs slightly less RAM than LXQt - important for 256MB+ models (they still support the first RPi with 256MB RAM), but it helps on the 512MB versions too
3. Why add Qt? It increases the size of the install images, updates take longer, and the average flash memory is not great at speed and write cycles

Well, their customization is almost just a skin/theme (ok... it has a few extras...)
it has been shown that the memory increases of the Qt version are relatively (very) small (specially if we consider the "natural evolution of software" - if i remember correctly it was about 20Mb - but it did have some improvements)
and one could argue the LXDE project evolved into LXQt and that LXQt is "more alive"
It has new features (which would free Pi devs from having to develop them all over again - like the new search feature on the menu)
(and i'm not even going to mention lxde is based in the old-dead GTK2...)

[kneekoo]

I just don't get it!!!

They just keep on LXDE...

wake up guys... LXQt is here already!

1. They customized LXDE for their needs and it works just fine
2. LXDE needs slightly less RAM than LXQt - important for 256MB+ models (they still support the first RPi with 256MB RAM), but it helps on the 512MB versions too
3. Why add Qt? It increases the size of the install images, updates take longer, and the average flash memory is not great at speed and write cycles

[TheDcoder]

My passively cooled RPi 4 with a big metal case as the heat sink works great as a headless home server, I can run all the software I want on it and haven't experienced any issues so far. Thanks to it I'm connected to IRC 24/7 too.

I tried Raspbian as my distro first but got quickly fed up with the outdated packages, so I switched to Arch Linux ARM and haven't looked back since.

[rclark]

I would only run RPIs in headless configuration and only with the Ethernet cable plugged in.

Oh, I run my wireless RPIs (say PI Zeros) headless all the time. I setup a 'static' IP for my internal network of devices (separate sub network from internet network). I don't use DHCP much at all except initial setup. On a newly loaded OS, I'll plug the virgin SD card into a RPI 3 or 4 with the ethernet cable. I then use nmap to sniff out the DHCP address that was given. Then SSH into that address to assign a 'static' IP and setup the wireless. Then I can remove that card and plug into the Zero for wireless network access. Simple.

I never found the need to use any other distro than PI OS (32bit or 64bit) for the RPIs. As for Ubuntu, I do run KUbuntu LTS on all my servers, desktops and laptops. No complaints. Has been very reliable and allows me to do anything I have needed/wanted to do. Don't see what the big deal is with calling out Ubuntu.....

[NotMine999]

That's interesting because for a few days I did some light browsing, office type work (libreOffice), programming a bit... Ie. just generally using the 400 as I normally would use a desktop and it worked fine. I didn't see any lag in typing, or the mouse movement. Hooked up to a standard 1920x1080 hdmi screen. I did use an external SSD for the boot drive/storage, but that only affected the speed of loading apps (much faster than using the SD card). That said I normally run all my RPIs headless, but I was curious....

I would only run RPIs in headless configuration and only with the Ethernet cable plugged in.

That way I don't need NetworkManager or NetworkD; a static IP configuration works just fine. DHCP is overkill for a device that runs all the time (it is a UPS monitor with multiple UPS attached via USB) and reboots smoothly on power-up. So even if the host network is slow to recover after a power blip or outage the device will be ready for network when network is finally ready.