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An Ubuntu 22.04 LTS Fix Is Coming For A Very Annoying & Serious APT Problem

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  • #11
    This bug is integration hell. apt was doing what's supposed to do, the control file for libudev1 was doing what was supposed to do, the repository for staged releases was doing what was supposed to do. When each tried to do what they were supposed to do, they found themselves that nothing worked. This is an example that if systems work as they are designed to do, the interaction of those systems isn't guaranteed to work that well. This kind of things are hard to foresee. Heck, the test case literally sets up an entire repository with a 601 packages and their dependencies to make sure that stuff works as intended. Computers are complicated YO!

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    • #12
      Originally posted by Jabberwocky View Post

      Really? Long Term Support != All bugs fixed super-stable.
      It did mean exactly that a decade ago. The quality of Ubuntu LTS releases (I shudder even to think about non-LTS releases) went steadily downhill from 18.04 at least.

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      • #13
        Originally posted by braiam View Post
        This bug is integration hell. apt was doing what's supposed to do, the control file for libudev1 was doing what was supposed to do, the repository for staged releases was doing what was supposed to do. When each tried to do what they were supposed to do, they found themselves that nothing worked. This is an example that if systems work as they are designed to do, the interaction of those systems isn't guaranteed to work that well. This kind of things are hard to foresee. Heck, the test case literally sets up an entire repository with a 601 packages and their dependencies to make sure that stuff works as intended. Computers are complicated YO!
        Yep, and this is exactly what we have QA for. A concept that Canonical, apparently, deems obsolete.

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        • #14
          PopOs strikes again?

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          • #15
            apt has always been a mess that's too easy to break. Always. I hate it with passion. Yum/dnf never produces the kinds of issues that apt does.

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            • #16
              One of the best days in my life was when I first installed Manjaro. I was very upset about how many years I just spent fixing different "something went wrong" Ubuntu issues. Two years since then I am still running that same Manjaro install that survived two hardware changes, one SSD migration and numerous attempts to break it like compiling my own kernel, mesa and millions of other things. I never managed to get Ubuntu running for so long even in near-default configuration.

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              • #17
                Originally posted by Sin2x View Post

                Yep, and this is exactly what we have QA for. A concept that Canonical, apparently, deems obsolete.
                No QA would have got this. This is literally end to end testing which is very expensive and no company would set that up for small processes like this.

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                • #18
                  Originally posted by braiam View Post

                  No QA would have got this. This is literally end to end testing which is very expensive and no company would set that up for small processes like this.
                  Wrong and apparently you did not read the article very attentively:

                  I was quite puzzled at first what was going on with how a simple apt install was leading to such a broken system but difficult to debug with the process being scripted/automated for the testing and when going to check on the system to find the Ubuntu desktop rebooted and just at the console and without networking support, etc. That was happening on several systems across multiple clean installs

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by braiam View Post

                    No QA would have got this. This is literally end to end testing which is very expensive and no company would set that up for small processes like this.
                    Uhh QA would have found this or to put it differently if anything would have found this it would be QA, Michael from Phoronix was literally the QA for Ubuntu in this regard. Its pretty much the exact same problem that Linus from LTT dealt with PopOS, thats what QA is for.

                    Test cases are written by developers and they often target very specific circumstances and/or they start with states that are "clean". The whole point of QA is to have people that do really weird shit with your software which is not immediately obvious in an attempt to break your software.
                    Last edited by mdedetrich; 14 July 2022, 01:26 PM.

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                    • #20
                      So hang on.

                      Michael doesn't bother to update the system after doing a clean install? And if you actually *do* do that, this bug doesn't manifest?

                      What the hell is there to complain about then? The first thing you should be doing after installing the system, and especially before installing new packages, is updating everything. Sure, it's weird behavior, but it wouldn't be encountered if only people did the right thing (TM).

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