Arch-Based Manjaro Linux 21.3 Released

[skeevy420]

Rolling everything else + LTS kernel is a bit strange to me as well. I understand offerings like Neon / Argon. Stable everything else + latest fast moving DE makes sense. However, one of the big selling points of rolling is the newest kernels. I don't want LTS kernels on Tumbleweed. Hell, Fedora is on 5.18.5!

In Manjaro's case they offer ZFS and NVIDIA modules in their repos. Those don't always work with the latest stable or rc kernels, but they almost always work with the latest LTS kernel. If you use ZFS or NVIDIA, that's something you'd care about having access to. Manjaro currently offers 5.18.5 and 5.19rc1 so it's not like their stuff is out of date when compared to Fedora.

They also offer every single LTS kernel available from kernel.org. I'm sure there are people who need them for reasons. We've all read the articles about features and whatnot being removed from newer kernels. Well, those features are usually available on those LTS kernels so Manjaro offers you an in-between with an older kernel and newer software stack until you can migrate away from whatever is keeping you on the LTS kernel.

With my Zen 2 and Polaris system I really don't need more than 5.15. If it wasn't for AMD P State I'd probably have stuck to 5.15. I'll probably stick to the next LTS release unless AMD releases something magical for Zen 2 or Polaris or something really cool comes along that entices me to update to current stable over LTS. So there are reasons why you'd want both an LTS kernel and a rolling software stack. Mine are ZFS and my hardware not really requiring it.

[pWe00Iri3e7Z9lHOX2Qx]

Since Manjaro is supposedly targeted at novice users (or at least they're one of Manjaro's target audiences), I guess it mainly sticks to LTS kernels in order to avoid breakages with Nvidia or other proprietary drivers. Linux Mint for example, is even more conservative in that sense. With Mint 20 series, its developers refuse to ship it with newer HWE kernels like vanilla Ubuntu LTS point releases, so the latest release (20.3) still ships kernel 5.4 which is about 2.5 years old(!). They publicly said in their blog that this is in order to avoid problems with proprietary drivers.

But novice users shouldn't really be using any rolling distro...

[Melcar]

But novice users shouldn't really be using any rolling distro...

But muh Steam Deck uses Arch...

Yeah, that's pretty much the main reason many new novice gamer users are flocking to Arch and its derivatives. In this case, all fixed and semi-fixed release distros need to do is set up a (official) repo that provides the latest stable (include point releases) mesa and related software to provide up to date graphics drivers. For those using AMD and Intel anyway. Nvidia users/gamers I have no idea why they would want a rolling release distro.

[user1]

But novice users shouldn't really be using any rolling distro...

Don't disagree with you here, but it's frequently advertised and recommended as a novice friendly distro.
Actually, if you visit their front page, you'll see "OS for everyone".

[Vistaus]

Since Manjaro is supposedly targeted at novice users (or at least they're one of Manjaro's target audiences), I guess it mainly sticks to LTS kernels in order to avoid breakages with Nvidia or other proprietary drivers. Linux Mint for example, is even more conservative in that sense. With Mint 20 series, its developers refuse to ship it with newer HWE kernels like vanilla Ubuntu LTS point releases, so the latest release (20.3) still ships kernel 5.4 which is about 2.5 years old(!). They publicly said in their blog that this is in order to avoid problems with proprietary drivers.

And everyone is complaining about Android devices with old kernels compared to desktop Linux, yet there is at least one popular distro (Mint) that also sticks to old kernels...

[Vistaus]

But novice users shouldn't really be using any rolling distro...

Novice users are usually the ones migrating from Windows or macOS. And those OS's are pretty much rolling when it comes to system upgrades (1 per year on macOS and a few per year on Windows) and definitely rolling when it comes to app updates, since most apps updates themself either through an auto-update/built-in update mechanism or through the system app store. So not sure where this "novice users shouldn't be using any rolling distros" keeps coming from time and time again.

[creative]

Since Manjaro is supposedly targeted at novice users (or at least they're one of Manjaro's target audiences), I guess it mainly sticks to LTS kernels in order to avoid breakages with Nvidia or other proprietary drivers. Linux Mint for example, is even more conservative in that sense. With Mint 20 series, its developers refuse to ship it with newer HWE kernels like vanilla Ubuntu LTS point releases, so the latest release (20.3) still ships kernel 5.4 which is about 2.5 years old(!). They publicly said in their blog that this is in order to avoid problems with proprietary drivers.

Hah! Avoiding breakage, 'and no I am trying to be a wisebutt' I have seen plenty of breakage with nvidia drivers on Manjaro as it is my distro of choice. Also their latest packaged 515 nvidia driver causes SOTTR Sigsegfaults upon loading the benchmark or a game, I had to roll it back to 510. As I said before, you will have nvidia driver breakage at some point with manjaro where you are stuck outside a 'failed to start' lightdm. I have experienced it on a family members laptop and my own custom built desktop. No distribution is perfect, I have been using linux for 21 years so fixing things outside the DM server is not a big deal though, not being snarky, my point is, is that I have been used to mopping up upgrade messes for a long time.

Out of all the upgrade messes Manjaro still seems to do really good and keep them to a minimum. Been a big fan and user of this distribution for a while now. It's a Toyota, its reliable but you are still going to have to do maintenance. Out of all the distributions you will have to install it once or twice maybe within a half decade, usually due to user error though, no pun intended.

As for being a novice distribution? Any distribution can be a "novice" distribution, it just depends on whether that "novice" wants to use a guide or not.

And of course, yes! Manjaro rocks! It's rad and has been very good to me.

[pWe00Iri3e7Z9lHOX2Qx]

Novice users are usually the ones migrating from Windows or macOS. And those OS's are pretty much rolling when it comes to system upgrades (1 per year on macOS and a few per year on Windows) and definitely rolling when it comes to app updates, since most apps updates themself either through an auto-update/built-in update mechanism or through the system app store. So not sure where this "novice users shouldn't be using any rolling distros" keeps coming from time and time again.

Windows Insider preview builds are a bit closer to a Linux rolling release, but I'd say the stable channel updates are pretty far away from that model. Windows typically has a ten year lifecycle, and the updates in between are usually quite small. The bi-annual Windows H1/H2 updates have a way slower rate of change than bi-annual Fedora updates. Similarly, macOS updates don't really feel bigger than a years worth of Fedora changes. Lots of bringing things over from iOS, enhancements to shared capabilities like FaceTime / Messages, a "focus" mode, etc. I don't feel like the UX for the core system of either of those changes more frequently than fixed release Linux distros.

Definitely true on the app updates through their respective app stores though, although Windows adoption there still seems abysmal. Thankfully winget has been a nice first step toward sane package management on Windows. Installing 90%+ of your favorite apps on a new system is now extremely easy (and quite similar to doing it on Linux) via simple scripting. And

winget upgrade --all

makes keeping them updated easy too. Still not as good as Linux package management, but a hell of a lot better than visiting every app's website and downloading the installers manually.

[stiiixy]

I agree with the 'Toyota' analogy mentioned above. I have so very little real issues (AMD-based systems) with my two systems. Just install the bastard and off to work I go. I just got old I suppose, and wanted the OS to GTFO of the way. And now Valve finally has Steam as Deck based on Arch, my Media Centre experience might improve beyond the already great Kodi+Plugins for Steam, ROM's and GoG amongst other geo-locking nard.

As for the kernel version's on offer? Well, this is Linux and, who doesn't like options! Everything from 4-series LTS up to current release, along with the latest RC starting at 1. I ALWAYS have at least two kernels installed, usually one LTS that I know works and when I fiddle with the latest stable release, I have a much simpler mouse-clicky fallback recovery method, which for novice user's, would be a boon once trained to select 'Advanced' at boot. MUCH easier for remote support when people need it.

Again, I am old and getting lazy and not interested in lifting the bonnet to jump-start my car every time I hit the power button.

[creative]

stiiixy my opinion of Manjaro is, it's alright for newcomers to linux but best for veterans. And! A lot of veterans do just that, they use Manjaro, its reliable, you can pull it apart, rip it to bits and put it all back together if you want or leave it alone, it just works.