Ubuntu 22.04 LTS Changes Default For NVIDIA Driver Back To Using X.Org Rather Than Wayland

[skeevy420]

I don't freaking care about built-in GPUs. If we are talking about real GPUs NVIDIA is king by a huge wide margin, period.

It's like taking your 1989 Toyota Tercel to the race track. Just because it has four wheels and goes vroom doesn't mean you should race with it.

[wertigon]

Out-of-date is design here of Wayland.

Yes it is, just like the Linux kernel is a filthy monolithic beast compared to the modern, sleek and elegant NT kernel. So why even bother to make drivers for a filthy outdated technology that is doomed to die within a year or so?

(Yes, the above sentence is sarcasm. Yes, I was making a point.)

Look, it's perfectly simple. AMD, Intel, Qualcomm et. al. can make a driver that works with Wayland, and does so by collaborating on Mesa. Let's put aside that it is following a filthy non-optimal technology path that should die a thousand deaths. Are you saying that Nvidia is not competent enough to do what their competitors has been doing for years?

The market is screaming for a working Wayland render path. Nvidia, thus far, cannot provide one. The only explanations I can find are that Nvidia are either incompetent, or are otherwise doing their best to exert willful malice. Would love to be proven wrong though.

Now, thank you for pointing out that Wayland needs to be updated. Can you please develop a proof-of-concept on how to make a Wayland-like protocol that does have explicit sync and is compatible with Mesa?

[wertigon]

Basically, using gasoline and internal combustion engines is more environmental friendly than EVs and coal plants.

You are going waaaaay off topic here. This is the only reply you will get - You are wrong. Your source is outdated (2007, really?), has been debunked numerous times, and this video from Peter Hadfield pretty much sums it up. Regardless, since EVs are now cheaper to produce than gas cars (at least in China), and cheaper to drive than gas cars, the debate is moot. Economy will ensure we all drive electric by 2040, so you can beat a dead horse and get nowhere, or get on the EV train.

[Charlie68]

I am happy that you have a good experience with Wayland ... but there were still some functionality missing - and after revoking Wayland as default with Nvidia and SDL2
revoking Wayland by default, I don't think anybody can really say that Wayland is stable and has all X.org functionality as a subset.
There are still users complaining that X.org is still use as otherwise more development will go to Wayland ... and more bugs will show up.
But it is the other way round: on professional systems a change in a component is done when everything is better and proven so.
When KDE devs will say that the experience with KDE is better under Wayland than under X.org I will start thinking about a change - not before.
So we will see what is in KDE neon 'user edition' - and after my experience this will work - as those devs do care and really work with their system.

As I have hardened servers I know that X.org is a target - but I was also responsible for workstation and I never saw any problems with stability or security in real life.
And I am using X.org since 1994 on my Linux installations.
A script is something I (or an admin) puts on the system - so there is no security problem. You don't run things from Internet resources you do not know, right?
Otherwise there is no security at all. Root must know what she/he does - otherwise hell breaks lose. That's a professional system. And it works as proven by reality!
From my point of view X.org as extremely insecure which eats your date and put every personal bit you have on social media is just witch hunting.
If the share of Wayland would be well above 50%, we may see if this not so new kid on the block keeps its promises ... maybe, but we will see ...
And still using XWayland ... is this code bullet proof?

The transition to wayland as default, it is not up to GNOME or KDE but to distributions, it is no coincidence that 22.04 is the first Ubuntu LTS to use wayland by default, while other distributions with GNOME have done so for some time, especially those enterprises that have to answer about the security they offer their customers.
The problem is with Nvidia is that it has legitimately decided to continue on its proprietary driver path and is now having difficulty using wayland, they have the money to solve their problems, I don't think these problems need to be solved by the community that doesn't take a penny from Nvidia!
When you say that wayland still has some problems to solve it is true, but most of these are not from wayland, but they are compositing or missing bees and concern some specificities, such as some problems with the multimonitor, which by the way there I've also seen on Xorg etc.
In the world of open source if everyone sticks to the old just because it works, it wouldn't go on, users like not to pay and not contribute anything, but that way you don't go anywhere and unfortunately it limits development.
So it's obvious that if wayland doesn't work well for your needs, stick to Xorg, but if it works for you, it doesn't make any sense to stay on Xorg just because it's the default, because the default has to take into account so many things, which in the personal experience may be irrelevant.

[Developer12]

I don't freaking care about built-in GPUs. If we are talking about real GPUs NVIDIA is king by a huge wide margin, period.

Sorry, but that's not how the world works. This is all about sheer market volume. Developers don't write applications and desktop environments for the most powerful GPUs, they write the for the most likely GPU some is to have on their desk. An intel i7 with an integrated GPU.

The iGPUs matter because they're used as workstations *everywhere.* Who gives a shit about nvidia down at the bottom with less than 20%? They don't even register to people trying to get real work done in an office environment or on their home office PC.

[birdie]

Sorry, but that's not how the world works. This is all about sheer market volume. Developers don't write applications and desktop environments for the most powerful GPUs, they write the for the most likely GPU some is to have on their desk. An intel i7 with an integrated GPU.

The iGPUs matter because they're used as workstations *everywhere.* Who gives a shit about nvidia down at the bottom with less than 20%? They don't even register to people trying to get real work done in an office environment or on their home office PC.

Absolute most modern serious games require at the very least the GTX 1060 level of performance just for 1080p low settings and no one cares about your built-in GPUs, nor anyone takes them into account. Period. As for your desktop, web browsing, etc. built-in GPUs from a decade ago are more than enough.

Intel being on "top" of the GPU market is akin to walking being on top of the movement market. Yeah, you can walk. Good luck walking to your job from your home which is located 10 miles away or going on vacation.

Ryzen 6000 mobile CPUs with RDNA2 graphics are somewhat usable for 1080p but their market share doesn't exist at the moment.

Stop putting crap into my years thank you very much.

[Ladis]

The market is screaming for a working Wayland render path. Nvidia, thus far, cannot provide one. The only explanations I can find are that Nvidia are either incompetent, or are otherwise doing their best to exert willful malice. Would love to be proven wrong though.

You not being able to find an explanation doesn't mean it doesn't exist (the explanation was already given - the implicit vs. explicit synchronization). Linux GPU market is mostly GPU compute servers, where NVidia is the king. Linux desktop is often broken and is usabe only for 1-2 % of people.

[wertigon]

You not being able to find an explanation doesn't mean it doesn't exist (the explanation was already given - the implicit vs. explicit synchronization). Linux GPU market is mostly GPU compute servers, where NVidia is the king. Linux desktop is often broken and is usabe only for 1-2 % of people.

Ah, this explains it. Nvidia does not care about Desktop Linux then, end of story. This is a disappointing answer but fair enough.

Since every other GPU vendor *does* care enough to implement a working Mesa driver that kicks Nvidia butt, this only reaffirms my stance to simply not buy Nvidia hardware for Linux use. I will continue to recommend AMD and Intel for Linux desktop until such a time Nvidia get their act together and start owning up.

And no, implicit / explicit synchronization is not a valid concern - If everyone else can do it in a vendor neutral way, that still means Nvidia is either incompetent, or they do not allocate enough resources to it (aka doesn't care). Or perhaps refusing to do it out of spite, at which point they're just being dicks.

[IndioNuvemChuva]

And no, implicit / explicit synchronization is not a valid concern - If everyone else can do it in a vendor neutral way, [...]

How is it vendor neutral? Mesa is a driver vendor. q=
Unless you're seriously suggesting every hardware vendor whose drivers aren't implemented as a back-end of Mesa should either assimilate or die?

[wertigon]

How is it vendor neutral? Mesa is a driver vendor. q=
Unless you're seriously suggesting every hardware vendor whose drivers aren't implemented as a back-end of Mesa should either assimilate or die?

Mesa is hardware neutral in the sense it supports multiple different hardware vendors, and it is starting to become as integral to Linux graphics as Direct 3D is to Windows. If you don't like it, well, code your own and get industry wide adoption then!