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Arch Linux Update On The Status Of Its Toolchain

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  • #31
    Originally posted by TemplarGR View Post

    Oh look, we have yet another Arch apologist here.... Did you read my previous post? I do not accuse him of not working enough for me for free, and i am not entitled to his work. I am accusing him of not notifying everyone that he can't perform the job he was assigned, and letting another one (or even myself if i could actually become an Arch dev after many years of pain and frustration and licking their boots for years) pick up the slack and getting it done. Do you understand the difference? If you do not understand the difference, you are part of the problem.
    I hear you, and understand very well the point you are trying to make. It is just that I fundamentally disagree: the one that is not "picking up the slack" as you state is in my opinion not stopping anyone else from "picking up the slack". How could one open source contributor that is not doing anything stop another contributor from actually contributing? The only argument I can see is that the other contributor is not really contributing either, and fails to convince the rest of the team. The reality is that there is just not enough people who have the time/energy/knowledge/experience to do what it takes to "pick up the slack", unpaid.

    We just have to agree to disagree.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by TemplarGR View Post

      Yes. Current Arch devs like the prestige that comes with their position, but don't want to put the work into the project, all the while they discourage people from joining and make it difficult and complicated to become an Arch dev, because they don't want competition and a danger to their positions from more eager new recruits....

      I even read that in the case of a GNOME maintainer who took 2 months to update to GNOME 41, that he didn't do it earlier cause he was busy playing Fortnite or something like that. Someone wrote that he said it in the irc. Perhaps a lie or a rumor, but i wouldn't be surprised, seeing as it was a trouble-free upgrade and it took 2 months....

      There are many people, especially CS students like you said, who would want to have the chance to contribute and place it in their resume. That is one of the main reason to join volunteer projects like this for many people. If they really cared about their distro, they would create a clear way to trial/recruit new people, and not the BS that exists currently.
      Not an Arch user but the old adage stands - too many cooks spoil the broth! That said, why not have a 'play' repo with a couple of eager devs to do the heavy lifting i.e compiling, testing flags, packaging and the core package maintainer simply does quality checks and publishes the packages.

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      • #33
        You’d think with the Steam Deck running Arch that Valve would be heavily invested in finding someone to fill this roll

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        • #34
          As for GNOME on Archlinux, I resigned a while ago after being nearly inactive for 2 years.
          During those 2 years, the current GNOME maintainer did the updates on his own.

          I have maintained GNOME for 15 years on Archlinux and though most of the times it's bump and build, but every release comes with soname bumps and breakage, so updating GNOME to a new release takes time. When you're on your own, nobody will take up where you leave.

          Maintainers do not get any money for their time they put into Archlinux, so when it comes to dedication, job and family comes first. That's also the reason why I decided to resign, My dedication to Archlinux was nearly zero in the last 2 years before I resigned.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by JGC_ View Post
            As for GNOME on Archlinux, I resigned a while ago after being nearly inactive for 2 years.
            During those 2 years, the current GNOME maintainer did the updates on his own.

            I have maintained GNOME for 15 years on Archlinux and though most of the times it's bump and build, but every release comes with soname bumps and breakage, so updating GNOME to a new release takes time. When you're on your own, nobody will take up where you leave.

            Maintainers do not get any money for their time they put into Archlinux, so when it comes to dedication, job and family comes first. That's also the reason why I decided to resign, My dedication to Archlinux was nearly zero in the last 2 years before I resigned.
            Yes, and please tell me, what did you Arch Devs as a group, did to organize a recruitment effort to replace you? Nothing. You just stand there, in your positions, clearly unmotivated for months and years, letting the distro in limbo, before you decide to do us all a favor and finally announce that you don't want to bother anymore. All the while if you actually cared about the distro, you would actively try to recruit more people, show them the ropes as they learned, and let them pick up when you leave.

            You are all selfish crazy leftists in the Arch dev circles. You cared more about how to address LGBQTDFDGTDDRGR+ people and trash "codes of conduct" than actually bothering to recruit more people and communicate that there is a lack of motivated personel....

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            • #36
              Originally posted by TemplarGR View Post

              Yes, and please tell me, what did you Arch Devs as a group, did to organize a recruitment effort to replace you? Nothing. You just stand there, in your positions, clearly unmotivated for months and years, letting the distro in limbo, before you decide to do us all a favor and finally announce that you don't want to bother anymore. All the while if you actually cared about the distro, you would actively try to recruit more people, show them the ropes as they learned, and let them pick up when you leave.

              You are all selfish crazy leftists in the Arch dev circles. You cared more about how to address LGBQTDFDGTDDRGR+ people and trash "codes of conduct" than actually bothering to recruit more people and communicate that there is a lack of motivated personel....
              When I became inactive, I informed the rest of the crew, which was november 2018.
              From november 2018 to october 2021 I've done some small updates, rebuilds, todo list items and closed some bug reports, but wasn't involved in big things or the trash discussions you're talking about.

              During my 15 years as active maintainer for Archlinux, I've seen developers come and go. It's up to the team to replace them with new people. Sometimes people apply for the "job", sometimes the team picks new maintainers because they do good work as (trusted?) user.

              As for selfishness: during my 15 years as maintainer, I never received any thank you from any user. What I did receive multiple times was complaints about "why isn't this updated yet". So it's time to look in the mirror.



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              • #37
                I have read the "how to become a trusted user"
                One of the things mentioned is manage aur packages. I have done that several times, and been updating from day one with new version. What always happens is some day, with no notice the package is moved into community repo by a maintainer that already maintains 50+ packages. When next version comes it takes weeks before it's updated.
                Fantastic way to encourage participation...
                Last edited by tiltkoko; 09 February 2022, 12:37 PM.

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                • #38
                  @tiltkoko #post1307905
                  Here I wrote earlier about the harmlessness of the maintainers. I can add that aur packages were removed from me several times for no reason, although they solved the errors of other packages, and crooked packages hang there for years, but just a complaint from a harmful person is enough, and the package is simply killed indiscriminately and compensation. recovery possibilities. So I moved to github.

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                  • #39
                    I haven't use GNOME for a decade or something like it, I think I stopped using that DE when they released version 3 gravitating towards XFCE, so I'm quite sure I've used your packages JGC_, thanks for the work you've put into it! I remember having [testing] or [gnome-unstable] (can't recall) enabled as well when I was excited about a new release.

                    I have fond memories of those times, having a USB stick with a live environment to use with uni computers so it felt like home. Archiso is really useful and easy to use, although things got complex with UEFI and Secure Boot.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by ihatemichael View Post
                      Too late, I already got Gentoo working.
                      Getting Gentoo running is the least of your problems. I used Gento for almost 6 years from 2015 to 2016 and to be honest, the tooling got worse. Sometimes it is PITA to update it. Python and Perl packages were the worst. The last drop for me was when the only way to update the system was to run emerge -e to rebuild everything. I have AMD Ryzen 1800X and sometimes it segfaults during compilation, so I was running an update for a few hours then it segfaulted and emerge -r said it can't continue because of conflicts. Seriously, the emerge was running just fine before the fail, just please continue where you stopped last time. I learned a lot by using Gentoo and I liked it a lot, but this was a deal-breaker for me. I got the feeling the tools got worse over time, but that is just my view of it and I can be wrong.
                      I switched to Arch and so far I am satisfied with it, although at work officially supported distributions are Fedora or Ubuntu, so I have to switch there and then probably at home to have a unified environment everywhere.

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