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Joshua Strobl Steps Down From The Solus Project

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  • #21
    Originally posted by birdie View Post

    The Linux community and development in essence: wars, infighting, a huge duplication of effort, creating bicycles, creating half-assed products instead of fixing years old issues in already existing projects.

    And fences! I've forgotten about fences! libadwaita and various other clever tricks to make it difficult or impossible to use your work the way others want.
    Yet here I am using Linux exclusively at home and at work for the last 15 years, a Linux that keeps getting better and better all the time, sure, progress doesn't always go the way I would personally like, but more times than people would believe I have engaged with developers from different projects and they were very helpful, fixed the issues I reported remarkably fast, or offered alternative workarounds. Most of the time I found politeness, good will and professionalism in both the community and official distro vendors (RH/Canonical) (RH support is in my professional experience excellent)

    In contrast I've found massive bugs in windows affecting large corporations and every single time, no exception, after a very long process with MS we got told "won't fix" because MS after evaluated the issues came to the conclusion it wouldn't guarantee enough revenue for the trouble of fixing it; AKA: They couldn't care less, had bigger fish to fry. MS didn't provide other workaround but to install the previous version of Windows/Application that didn't had the bug, Great! so much for paying MS for support. MS support IMHO is a big joke if you happen to run into a real problem.

    (For your curiosity birdie: The issues range from problems with Terminal Services, MSSQL bugs, general environment corruption of variables/memory space and issues with video drivers caused by Windows kernel)

    Birdie why are you here? Why u like to suffer so much? Can't you find love in a Windows forum? Is that it?

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    • #22
      Originally posted by WolfpackN64 View Post
      I don't think some rando on the internet could do his job half as well.
      making hobby distro doesn't look like a job

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      • #23
        Originally posted by Mez' View Post
        Yet he was completely spot on in his arguments against the stupidity of libadwaita. The further from the Gnome closed-mindedness and its cultists with little critical mind, the better.
        He´s sticking to Budgie and that is great news. There are a lot of people wi5h high hopes on Budgie or the future System76 DE, as Gnome just doesn´t cut it. Most users are using Gnome out of spite (not into the QT world, and other DEs not mature enough), and are just waiting to jump ships whenever a new Unity-disruptive DE comes along.
        Most users don't have time for the spite, just use what works well, some use the computer for a living and need it to work reliable 100% of the time.

        My experience with Gnome, I try it for a day or two and find it unusable in terms of mechanics (it slows me down) and having abysmal performance after it has been running for a while (mouse crawls, Gnome 40.x seems a bit better lately though) and it hangs twice per day and if using Wayland all sort of oddities happen (here I don't know if wayland or gnome are the problem to be honest, lately it seems better though).

        My experience with KDE: unstable disaster. Every single time I boot KDE to test it (because everybody praises it so much) the same thing happens, I try to customize it and it hangs on me where I can just move the mouse and have to restart the login manager to get it to work again, this was the case with v3 and continues with v4, also there is so much clutter and dependencies it requires to run it baffles my mind, I could forgive the bloat if it was stable, but it is not.

        So here I am running XFCE and Mate on my computers since Gnome 2 got the boot, both are absolutely solid desktops.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by pal666
          because you say so? no, both of you are completely wrong with your stupid arguments against libadwaita
          Don't bother reply. That guy's delusional, he can't see where the development is happening. Where people put their money on.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by mirmirmir View Post

            Don't bother reply. That guy's delusional, he can't see where the development is happening. Where people put their money on.
            Enjoy your conversation with pal666, you make a good team.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by JPFSanders View Post

              Most users don't have time for the spite, just use what works well, some use the computer for a living and need it to work reliable 100% of the time.

              My experience with Gnome, I try it for a day or two and find it unusable in terms of mechanics (it slows me down) and having abysmal performance after it has been running for a while (mouse crawls, Gnome 40.x seems a bit better lately though) and it hangs twice per day and if using Wayland all sort of oddities happen (here I don't know if wayland or gnome are the problem to be honest, lately it seems better though).

              My experience with KDE: unstable disaster. Every single time I boot KDE to test it (because everybody praises it so much) the same thing happens, I try to customize it and it hangs on me where I can just move the mouse and have to restart the login manager to get it to work again, this was the case with v3 and continues with v4, also there is so much clutter and dependencies it requires to run it baffles my mind, I could forgive the bloat if it was stable, but it is not.

              So here I am running XFCE and Mate on my computers since Gnome 2 got the boot, both are absolutely solid desktops.
              XFCE and Mate lacks a modern UI and somewhat of an ecosystem in my opinion. I tried a few times along the years, but it doesn't do it for me either.
              What would be great is a DE that doesn't get in your way like Gnome because it's made for such a simplistic workflow you're stuck in your workflow about 5 minutes in when you actually need to do stuff, but is not as bloated as KDE. Some middle ground with all the "necessary" options, but not trying to brew coffee either. Willing to listen to the most requested features to accomodate the multitude of workfklows out there without forcing one or having to maintain hundreds either. Not easy, I know, and yet...
              Unity did a good job at finding that middle ground, and I really believe Budgie or the System76 DE could as well.
              Especially given the blog post of Joshua Strobl on why they went for EFL, he has expressed exactly what I've been saying for years but with technical arguments I can't get into (as a non-geek). Same goes with System76. If even big players and contributors are just fed up with the attitude and the lack of vision, it really shows how big the problem is. It's not a few people criticizing anymore, it's a convergence of skilled people wanting a different vision and taking action for it to materialize.
              I really hope 2022 will be the year where the foundations were laid for a solid DE to rise, existing or new.

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              • #27
                Originally posted by ermo View Post

                Hi, I'm the The Process Guy for the Serpent OS team.

                The idea with subscriptions is that you can subscribe to only subsets of a full package (particularly l18n/i10n). The idea is that the resolver we're writing will be able to exclude deps from installation depending on your subscriptions (this matters for e.g. LibreOffice, Firefox, Thunderbird etc.) in order to decrease update sizes. Your points about the terminology (and missing docs!) is well taken, though. Docs are on the 0.0 milestone for the cleanup/productisation pass of the tooling FWIW.

                I'll see what we can do about explaining subscriptions better moving forward.

                Thanks for the feedback.
                That makes a lot more sense. Using your example, even for English users where we're normally covered by default it'd be nice if the system was smart enough to know my language and automatically install my chosen language's pack when I go to install dictionary and thesaurus packages. Just the other day I was doing that and Pamac popped up a dependency prompt for me to pick my language while I'm thinking "you know damn well it's en_US and you should automagically pick that". Seems like subscribing to "English" or "Italian" would have saved that slight annoyance.

                FWIW, I'm not sure what word or phrase would be best to describe that kind of system. Intelligent Dependency Management? Heck, how do you even make that sound cool?

                I don't envy the packaging team. It sounds like subscriptions means breaking packages down into smaller packages which will bring its share of dependency fun.

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                • #28
                  At this point, I wonder if it wouldn't be the best if Budgie and Cosmic!(Pop_OS) devs join forces, given they literally have the same interest. For Serpent OS.. No thanks.

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                  • #29
                    So is libadwaita basically Kiragami without theming support?

                    What would happen if Budgie carries their own libadwaita fork? I suppose a cross desktop solution is to create a libadwaita fork that allows access to the stylesheets, etc. and make the new fork conflict with the original at a packaging level. Most non-rolling distrubutions are never caught up with current Gnome Shell and Plasma anyways, so hanging on to older Gnome apps for a little while to update the libadwaita fork wouldn't be a big deal. Plus, if Gnome breaks it badly... another Tuesday really; nothing really changes.

                    Speaking of converging desktops and Kiragami did Michael miss the news on the new Maui Shell desktop or did I just miss the article? I am sorry for being off-topic.

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by Mez' View Post
                      XFCE and Mate lacks a modern UI and somewhat of an ecosystem in my opinion.
                      Modern? Like Windows 8 Metro was modern? I feel there really is no such thing as "modern". Just current trends and gimmicks. It is a commercial buzzword to resell consumers more of the same crap, nothing more.

                      I believe there are still more Gtk+2 applications, so really the older Mate (or Gnome 2) has the bigger ecosystem. Though I do agree that Xfce is missing some crucial things; the last I saw was the volume control was missing due to some regressions and their solution was to use the one from Gnome 3 rather than one of the countless lighter alternatives; a strange decision.
                      Last edited by kpedersen; 02 January 2022, 04:31 PM.

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