Ubuntu 22.04 LTS "Jammy Jellyfish" Begins Development

[Mechanix]

That may be down to Nvidia's driver, rather than Ubuntu's implementation of Wayland.
Hopefully, Nvidia's new 795 series driver (which implements GBM) will improve things.

Is there some rational reason as to why you assign blame to nVidia? Aside from the usual "closed drivers bad" dirges that resound incessantly whenever they are mentioned?

I mean, my post was more or less "X works bad with Y" and your instant assumption is that it must be with X rather than Y, based on no information at all.

[skeevy420]

100 percent. I tried giving it a chance. Slow start up on a fresh boot. But after the first startup, it's quick. But on a native debian package, it doesn't fall victim to this.

Aside from that, I just don't *need* a snap package unless I actually need it (multipass, for example).

Having said that, I agree with the decision of making Firefox a snap as it allows for automatic updating and keeping the user up to date. With an apt package, who knows, they might never run the update and run an outdated insecure browser.

Sure, they'll have a slow startup once in a while, but that's a tradeoff worth making given they'll be secure browsing the web. The rest of us can just uninstall the snap and install the apt package. It's probably a small set of users that use Ubuntu (and not debian, arch, etc) that would bother doing this (like me).

A trick I did on Ubuntu and Silverblue was to open Snap or Flat when I'd log in. I picked Firefox because it's something I'm gonna use almost every time I log on. Basically run something to get the backend up and running. Terminal emulators and text editors work just as fine...just tailor that hack to your workflow.

You'd think that'd be a systemd service....start the damn app management backend so apps don't open slow the first time so we don't have to resort to stupid hacks like running Firefox on startup.

[WonkoTheSaneUK]

Is there some rational reason as to why you assign blame to nVidia? Aside from the usual "closed drivers bad" dirges that resound incessantly whenever they are mentioned?

I mean, my post was more or less "X works bad with Y" and your instant assumption is that it must be with X rather than Y, based on no information at all.

I never said "must", I said "may be".
I am an equal-opportunity blamer, who uses an Nvidia GPU with proprietary drivers.

My "assumption" is based on the fact that Nvidia have only just switched from EGLstreams to GBM with this new driver.
Previously, EGLstreams has not worked well with Wayland in my experience.

[Mechanix]

Then you know more than me about this, and your assertion seems based on facts rather than politics - so I will believe you.

I shall try again when nVidia releases wossname new version. Thanks!

[Chugworth]

100 percent. I tried giving it a chance. Slow start up on a fresh boot. But after the first startup, it's quick. But on a native debian package, it doesn't fall victim to this.

Aside from that, I just don't *need* a snap package unless I actually need it (multipass, for example).

Having said that, I agree with the decision of making Firefox a snap as it allows for automatic updating and keeping the user up to date. With an apt package, who knows, they might never run the update and run an outdated insecure browser.

Sure, they'll have a slow startup once in a while, but that's a tradeoff worth making given they'll be secure browsing the web. The rest of us can just uninstall the snap and install the apt package. It's probably a small set of users that use Ubuntu (and not debian, arch, etc) that would bother doing this (like me).

Well there's still the problem of ending up with an outdated, insecure operating system. The simple solution for that is with automatic package updating. That's one thing that most Linux distros don't handle well. Even Ubuntu Desktop (last I checked) still prompts you to enter in a password every time the system updates. Personally I like to know what's being updated, but most users don't want to deal with that. They just want the system to stay up to date on its own. And there will certainly be some that just cancel that password prompt every time they see it. Windows handles that well in that by default, the user never even has to think about updates.

[F.Ultra]

Well there's still the problem of ending up with an outdated, insecure operating system. The simple solution for that is with automatic package updating. That's one thing that most Linux distros don't handle well. Even Ubuntu Desktop (last I checked) still prompts you to enter in a password every time the system updates. Personally I like to know what's being updated, but most users don't want to deal with that. They just want the system to stay up to date on its own. And there will certainly be some that just cancel that password prompt every time they see it. Windows handles that well in that by default, the user never even has to think about updates.

So enable automatic updates during the install then, Ubuntu have had that option since many versions back,

[furtadopires]

I would posit the question "Wayland working with nVidia drivers or not?"

Tried 21.10, and had grave issues. Installing drivers manually did not help, switching back to X11 broke things, reverted to 21.04 which worked flawless with X11.

I bet I do things wrong, but untangling the causes turned out to be too much for whatever payoff.

Nvidia fault* not yours

[furtadopires]

Wayland is already the default in the latest Ubuntu releases....

Not the LTS ones, which is why I'm still skeptical until the final release...

[arQon]

The only thing I dislike is that automated updates are currently crashing Firefox, which is not user friendly. If they can fix it to be a graceful restart instead, I’ll be happy.

Firefox has ALWAYS been like that. Even with the current deb-based system, every FF update warns that if you don't restart it it'll probably crap itself and fall over - and it nearly always does indeed do exactly that. (I've never actually understood WHY an existing FF instance can't manage to continue to run, like basically every other piece of software does, but obviously it's at least partly using either forks or dlopens that are at risk if the underlying binaries change, at a minimum).

The idea that a snap ESPECIALLY, which has an update mechanism that you have absolutely no control over, should randomly restart ANY piece of software that's currently in use, is just batshit insane. It's taking one of the most braindead aspects of snap and doubling down on it to add data loss to the mix. Of course, having it crash is just as bad - but that's part of the reason why snap is just a stupid way of doing things in the first place, so...

[timrichardson]

it is not possible for cli software , maybe they can just made a decision for apps/software with gui needs needs to ported to flatpak.

this is incorrect.

I use the powerstat cli snap on fedora, for instance. A great laptop power usage diagnostic.

And if you run a server and like letsenctypt (which is a lot of people), you will notice that certbot recommends that its cli tools be installed from the certbot snap.

snap provides good sandboxing and the snap store provides some level of comfort regarding the source of the software, both of which are attractive to serious cli tools.