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Endeavour OS ISOs Updated With Better Btrfs Support, Pacman Parallel Downloads

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  • Quackdoc
    replied
    Originally posted by Mez' View Post
    Maybe. And I'm sure I would end up managing it if I took the time to try.
    But I don't want to go through the hassle of trying, maybe semi-failing once or twice before getting everything as I want it to be. And waste time in the process for very little benefits as I would set and use my system basically as it is now, as I've found the compromise that suits me.
    As I said, people don't want to spend time in doing it the right way, even if it does take less then an hour of attention.

    What year are you talking about.
    Once again, I'm not exactly playing safe here by using AUR and unstable repositories, lots of possibilities to break the system with packages that are pushed early and possible de-synchronization between both, yet the ride has only been sailing through a calm sea. I have less dependencies issues than I had on Ubuntu, if any. And when there's some synchronization issue with the AUR (usually just for a few packages), 99.5% of the time refreshing the mirrors solves it, and for the 0.5% it's just a package that won't install as it cannot be found. A few days later tops, it's there again. Not something that you can be bothered with much.
    I haven't had the AUR down (as in nothing can be fetched or installed) in those 18 months.
    The only time I felt there might be some risk was when they pushed some Gnome 40/GTK 4 packages while they were still readying others. I saw some warning signs, waited it out a few days and it was all sorted out.
    Literally this year. Grub customizer is still artificially blocked in manjaro, there is a thread on the forum where last mod post was jun 1st. the maintainers haven't magically changed. they still do stupid shit like this. there is a reason the wiki and forums explicitly state to not expect getting help when using a derivative, because each derivative keeps doing asinine shit like this. not only that, they blamed an arbitrary issue on grub customizer, then locked the thread without giving anyone time to try and diagnose the issue. even though in my case, it most certainly did NOT cause the issue, and was the only fix. this is NOT the mods and maintainers of a distro that should ever be pointed to linux beginners.

    https://forum.manjaro.org/t/grub-cus...ckage/44509/13

    Leave a comment:


  • Mez'
    replied
    Originally posted by Quackdoc View Post

    if you have to spend hours learning how to install arch, you have a learning disability. its literally Ikea of distros now. before it was like a kit build, now its ikea. The instructions are well thought out, and the Easy guided install is as easy as any other distro, just text.
    Maybe. And I'm sure I would end up managing it if I took the time to try.
    But I don't want to go through the hassle of trying, maybe semi-failing once or twice before getting everything as I want it to be. And waste time in the process for very little benefits as I would set and use my system basically as it is now, as I've found the compromise that suits me.

    Originally posted by Quackdoc View Post
    Manjaro IS atrocious. It constantly, intentionally breaks support with aur. in fact it went so far as to duplicate grub, set a conflict with old grub, and grub-customizer, just so people couldn't install it from the AUR. I remember other situations, such as linux-vfio (though I doubt that was necessarily intentional) of aur breakages. so intentional, some not. at this point they should just run their own aur.
    What year are you talking about.
    Once again, I'm not exactly playing safe here by using AUR and unstable repositories, lots of possibilities to break the system with packages that are pushed early and possible de-synchronization between both, yet the ride has only been sailing through a calm sea. I have less dependencies issues than I had on Ubuntu, if any. And when there's some synchronization issue with the AUR (usually just for a few packages), 99.5% of the time refreshing the mirrors solves it, and for the 0.5% it's just a package that won't install as it cannot be found. A few days later tops, it's there again. Not something that you can be bothered with much.
    I haven't had the AUR down (as in nothing can be fetched or installed) in those 18 months.
    The only time I felt there might be some risk was when they pushed some Gnome 40/GTK 4 packages while they were still readying others. I saw some warning signs, waited it out a few days and it was all sorted out.

    Leave a comment:


  • Quackdoc
    replied
    Originally posted by Mez' View Post
    it's not laziness. It's time and interest. I don't see the point in preparing myself for hours and learn to install it in an outdated way when I can just install Manjaro the 2005+ way (GUI).
    if you have to spend hours learning how to install arch, you have a learning disability. its literally Ikea of distros now. before it was like a kit build, now its ikea. The instructions are well thought out, and the Easy guided install is as easy as any other distro, just text.

    I beg to differ. It's neither atrocious nor confusing. It's actually very clear and pretty nice. Between command line yay and pamac, you can do whatever you see fit depending on your time and willingness to get dirty (in the command line).
    I've been using Manjaro for a year and a half on the initial install with AUR and unstable repositories, and it's always clear when you'll run into dependency issues, you can always abort and wait for it to be sorted out.
    It feels like it would be very difficult to break your system (unless you try to break it intentionally).

    Although Ubuntu is totally alright as well.
    Manjaro IS atrocious. It constantly, intentionally breaks support with aur. in fact it went so far as to duplicate grub, set a conflict with old grub, and grub-customizer, just so people couldn't install it from the AUR. I remember other situations, such as linux-vfio (though I doubt that was necessarily intentional) of aur breakages. so intentional, some not. at this point they should just run their own aur.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mez'
    replied
    Originally posted by Quackdoc View Post

    no no, I agree, anybody who uses anything but vanilla arch is setting themselves up for failure. Arch isn't even hard to install, people are just too lazy to do it.
    it's not laziness. It's time and interest. I don't see the point in preparing myself for hours and learn to install it in an outdated way when I can just install Manjaro the 2005+ way (GUI).
    Originally posted by evasb View Post
    With the lack of a good Arch-based distro (Manjaro is atrocious and confusing) I resort to recommend Ubuntu LTS+Kisak Mesa PPA or PopOS for beginners.
    I beg to differ. It's neither atrocious nor confusing. It's actually very clear and pretty nice. Between command line yay and pamac, you can do whatever you see fit depending on your time and willingness to get dirty (in the command line).
    I've been using Manjaro for a year and a half on the initial install with AUR and unstable repositories, and it's always clear when you'll run into dependency issues, you can always abort and wait for it to be sorted out.
    It feels like it would be very difficult to break your system (unless you try to break it intentionally).

    Although Ubuntu is totally alright as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • Paradigm Shifter
    replied
    The only "Arch based" distro I've never had AUR issues with (other than Arch itself) was Anarchy Linux, which is basically an install script with some options to install some customisations for a desktops if desired.

    Although that has it's own quirks, like defaulting Ctrl-Alt-End in Cinnamon to "shutdown right now" rather than "give me the session manager menu".

    edit: Also while I've certainly had issues with Arch at various times, it was usually when I had it on a laptop which for whatever reason hadn't seen the internet (and thus updates) for months or years. At which point it would break horribly.

    Leave a comment:


  • polarathene
    replied
    Originally posted by linner View Post
    I don't know why but if you have a failure (eg. hardware) during pacman upgrade it can completely trash the ENTIRE system with corrupted files all over the place.
    I just ran into this recently with a family member on Manjaro. They weren't using anything from AUR either, they just performed an upgrade as per usual but it froze up on them (possibly kernel panic or OOM event), they waited a while and then opted to just power it off and try again... but the bootloader was corrupted when upgrading the kernel it seems.

    I figured something like Manjaro in that situation wouldn't have been prone to such a problem, there was no way they'd have been able to restore their system by themselves and they were getting quite upset about it. Their system is fine now, but I'm tempted to move them off on to something else, perhaps Fedora?

    They like KDE and mostly use a web browser and GIMP, they just care about getting security updates, I suggested Pop_OS but they want to stick to KDE for DE.

    Originally posted by linner View Post
    It's one reason I stay far away from Arch for servers.
    I've been using openSUSE Leap, haven't had any problems with that over the years, but I would like something with newer kernels and packages, the SP point release updates are quite a bit apart.

    I've heard good things about TW, but I'm not sure if that's a good idea for servers, openSUSE does offer a BTRFS feature for servers called transactional updates (atomic via read-only root snapshots switched to on boot IIRC)...might be worth trying?

    Leave a comment:


  • linner
    replied
    Instead of working on stuff like parallel downloads, somebody should try fixing pacman so that its operations are fully atomic. I can't count how many systems I've have that got completely trashed by a failed pacman upgrade. I don't know why but if you have a failure (eg. hardware) during pacman upgrade it can completely trash the ENTIRE system with corrupted files all over the place. With a lot of effort I've tried numerous times to recover from these but in the end always end up having to reinstall the OS fresh. It's one reason I stay far away from Arch for servers.

    Leave a comment:


  • Quackdoc
    replied
    Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post

    I'm not trying to be overly negative, but that's sort of to be expected if you use any of their* programs. Manjaro now and Antergors back in the day have that same issue in regards to the AUR. When you do an update you have to hope that they* rebuilt their packages the second that Arch updated their packages else you can start having dependency issues which can lead to oddball AUR and Pacman issues. They also tend to add in quality of life and helper scripts/Pacman hooks which may help some and do things for asinine reasons to others.

    In 8/9 years of using Arch and Arch-based, that's pretty much the experience that I've had most every time I've strayed from plain Arch ((and installed (lots of) packages from the AUR)). For me it seemed to be worse the more often I updated; when using automatic scheduled update syncing like Manjaro/Pamac does by default...because I'd see that sys tray green ghost become red which would trigger my OCD enough to have to run an update.

    *their/they meaning most anything Arch-based; not specifically EOS
    no no, I agree, anybody who uses anything but vanilla arch is setting themselves up for failure. Arch isn't even hard to install, people are just too lazy to do it.

    Leave a comment:


  • evasb
    replied
    I don't know why these arch-based distros maintainers still try to change Arch to somewhat "stabilize" their distro.

    For me, plain arch is stable enough.

    With the lack of a good Arch-based distro (Manjaro is atrocious and confusing) I resort to recommend Ubuntu LTS+Kisak Mesa PPA or PopOS for beginners.

    Leave a comment:


  • skeevy420
    replied
    Originally posted by Quackdoc View Post
    I used endeavor OS for about a month and a half, constantly borked AUR some how, and blacklists broadcom drivers by default for some asinine reason. well not as bad as reborn OS that would blacklist them on every single fucking updated. but still annoying.
    I'm not trying to be overly negative, but that's sort of to be expected if you use any of their* programs. Manjaro now and Antergors back in the day have that same issue in regards to the AUR. When you do an update you have to hope that they* rebuilt their packages the second that Arch updated their packages else you can start having dependency issues which can lead to oddball AUR and Pacman issues. They also tend to add in quality of life and helper scripts/Pacman hooks which may help some and do things for asinine reasons to others.

    In 8/9 years of using Arch and Arch-based, that's pretty much the experience that I've had most every time I've strayed from plain Arch ((and installed (lots of) packages from the AUR)). For me it seemed to be worse the more often I updated; when using automatic scheduled update syncing like Manjaro/Pamac does by default...because I'd see that sys tray green ghost become red which would trigger my OCD enough to have to run an update.

    *their/they meaning most anything Arch-based; not specifically EOS

    Leave a comment:

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