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Ubuntu 21.04 - X.Org vs. Wayland Linux Gaming Performance

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  • #41
    Originally posted by Azrael5 View Post
    I don't demanding anything. I just notice the problem on make a right comparison simply why games are still based on xorg because wayaland is not integrated yet. It's not a complain, it's just a description of an actual condition. If wayland was defined 5 years ago, games would have been realized in Wayalnd which is a better graphical stack while X11 is deprecated. I notice that another problem will happen when the linux Oses are wayland based, that is games based on xorg. Structure must be ready before the use of it by means, otherwise the means are conditioned. A window is placed after the wall. No one put a window in a wall that has to be replaced by another new wall. Do you?
    https://drewdevault.com/2019/08/09/D...r-Wayland.html
    Interesting point is for all the VR games I know under X11 are doing a full X11 bipass dropping down to direct Linux Direct rendering manager for best performance. One problem this does not work with Nvidia graphics on Linux.

    5 years ago Valve had put their backing behind the way wayland does thing. 5 years ago wayland was fairly much defined. Major issue Nvidia. Games have mostly been keep on being made because Nvidia was not doing anywhere near decent drivers for Wayland. Game developers go where the performance is in a lot of cases.

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    • #42
      Originally posted by lyamc View Post

      Same for me in regards to VNC. Once Gnome fixes their stuff, I’ll be able to use wayvnc.

      Until then, I’ll keep using X11
      No wayvnc may remain wlroots compositors only. Being built for wlroots means it can depend on wlroots unique extensions not the ones that end up standard.

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      • #43
        Originally posted by oiaohm View Post

        https://drewdevault.com/2019/08/09/D...r-Wayland.html
        Interesting point is for all the VR games I know under X11 are doing a full X11 bipass dropping down to direct Linux Direct rendering manager for best performance. One problem this does not work with Nvidia graphics on Linux.

        5 years ago Valve had put their backing behind the way wayland does thing. 5 years ago wayland was fairly much defined. Major issue Nvidia. Games have mostly been keep on being made because Nvidia was not doing anywhere near decent drivers for Wayland. Game developers go where the performance is in a lot of cases.
        Yes Nvidia is one of the major causes of this actual situation. It acts as a bottleneck although recent news gives hopes. Fortunately, the users can implements some alternatives, until this doesn't happens. In this case, question is what to do if a hardware company doesn't cooperate. If the progress is limited, those kind of hardware must be excluded from the progress. So, just different hardware will be able to take benefit from the software progress until also the not adequate ones are conformant. I know that one of the major problems on linux systems has always been a certain reluctance of hardware industry on supporting desktop environment. Someone asked if Nvidia was boycotting linux users. It was a provocation but the meaning of this provocation was clear. However, many hardware developers are contributing on Linux in the last years, such as Intel (also if in the worst period of its era).

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        • #44
          Originally posted by Azrael5 View Post
          Someone asked if Nvidia was boycotting linux users. It was a provocation but the meaning of this provocation was clear.
          We know why Nvidia was doing what they were doing. Its market segmentation. The features wayland compositor developers are after with GBMand DMABHUF wants with applications having their own individual allocations with security will allow splitting consumer gpu between multi end users with security. Nvidia with glstreams wanted to keep the X11 status que of a shared buffer stack so no security. So you wanted to split a GPU between many users with security you would have to buy the higher end cards with Nvidia.

          Same with Nvidia making windows drivers that would intentionally break when they detected a VM.

          Its not that Nvidia was boycotting Linux users they were wanting to restrict the functionality of their cards so they could charge Linux and Windows users more money to have particular features when the cheaper cards had all the performance those users in fact need. Company greed can be a pain in the ass.

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          • #45
            Originally posted by oiaohm View Post

            No wayvnc may remain wlroots compositors only. Being built for wlroots means it can depend on wlroots unique extensions not the ones that end up standard.
            Well the current situation is:

            Gnome’s Remote Desktop (broken)

            Wayvnc (Uses wayland extensions the gnome/mutter has not yet added)

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            • #46
              Originally posted by lyamc View Post

              Well the current situation is:

              Gnome’s Remote Desktop (broken)

              Wayvnc (Uses wayland extensions the gnome/mutter has not yet added)
              No wayvnc is using a prototype extension that gnome does not have to add. Gnome Remote Desktop uses the extension on path to include in Wayland stable protocols.

              So this is a case you need Gnome Remote Desktop fixed or some other alternative to appear. Wayvnc is for wlroots based compositors and Gnome is not that.

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              • #47
                Regardless, my point from the beginning still stands: I cannot switch to Wayland due to VNC (or a similar thing) not working.

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by lyamc View Post
                  Regardless, my point from the beginning still stands: I cannot switch to Wayland due to VNC (or a similar thing) not working.
                  You're using it wrong! Wayland is perfect and should work for you better than X.org.

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by Azrael5 View Post

                    Yes Nvidia is one of the major causes of this actual situation. It acts as a bottleneck although recent news gives hopes. Fortunately, the users can implements some alternatives, until this doesn't happens. In this case, question is what to do if a hardware company doesn't cooperate. If the progress is limited, those kind of hardware must be excluded from the progress. So, just different hardware will be able to take benefit from the software progress until also the not adequate ones are conformant. I know that one of the major problems on linux systems has always been a certain reluctance of hardware industry on supporting desktop environment. Someone asked if Nvidia was boycotting linux users. It was a provocation but the meaning of this provocation was clear. However, many hardware developers are contributing on Linux in the last years, such as Intel (also if in the worst period of its era).
                    In my impression Wayland has been a major roadblock for itself due to its brain damaged design (under Wayland graphics server = compositor = an implementation of hundreds of APIs - AFAIK no other major OS works this way) but people here beg to differ.

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by birdie View Post

                      In my impression Wayland has been a major roadblock for itself due to its brain damaged design (under Wayland graphics server = compositor = an implementation of hundreds of APIs - AFAIK no other major OS works this way) but people here beg to differ.
                      As you obviously don't know, EVERY major OS works this way.

                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartz_Compositor
                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desktop_Window_Manager
                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window...SurfaceFlinger

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