Devuan 4.0 Alpha Builds Begin For Debian 11 Without Systemd

[intelfx]

Totally agree, But i fail to see where the myth is in this post?

I'm not a systemd hater, I just dislike it. Systemd is like an Brussels bureaucrat who thinks it knows what's best for my system. When bureaucratd decides i'm not aloud to log back in after a period of inactivity, Drops me to a tty for 2 mins and then reboots! That's a bit too much power for pid#1.
BTW love it or hate it this is a good read https://suckless.org/sucks/systemd/

For starters, systemd does not even have any machinery to "decide" what you are describing. You have probably hit a bug (likely not even in systemd).

And that suckless thing is FUD and myths from the first word to the last.

[nado]

And people of who actually DO something about it and go the "other way" will get endless shower of shit from the fanatics of systemd. You just cannot "live and let live". You are like children who would endlessly bully and attack others who are not like you.

On the contrary, it's great that people do and enjoy different things... I just don't see any point in complaining unless it's constructive; IE they are actually developers who are performing the changes they deem necessary.

[F.Ultra]

Totally agree, But i fail to see where the myth is in this post?

That faceless bureaucrats in Brussels dictate what you can and cannot do is just something that Russian troll factories made up to make people vote for Brexit in the UK, reality is that all such laws that govern me as a EU citizen are done by people designated by the national government that I voted for and for which every single member country have veto rights, then those laws have to pass through the EU parliament which consists of people that I voted for in the EU referendum. And last those laws have to be ratified by my national government before they even becomes something that affects me (and not all such EU mandates are ratified as well). So all that speak of bureaucrats dictating from Brussels is 100% hogwash.

Secondly, systemd does not dictate what you do with your computer more than any other piece of software that you use, and most of its behaviour can be controlled though settings. Thirdly I have never experienced any of the problems that you describe (locked out, drops to tty after 2min and then reboots) even though having been running systemd for several years on thousands of servers and hundreds of desktops, now this does not in any way, shape, or form say that you didn't experience this of course, but if you did then it was most likely due to some bug somewhere and not due to "systemd thinks it knows that's best for my system" which was you claim.

[F.Ultra]

And people of who actually DO something about it and go the "other way" will get endless shower of shit from the fanatics of systemd. You just cannot "live and let live". You are like children who would endlessly bully and attack others who are not like you.

While I agree with you that the Devuan devs should not receive such shitstorms, there is a reason for it happening and that is the vast extreme amount of shitposting from the anti-systemd crowd in the first years that lead to the creation of Devuan. Yes people should not give in to an eye for an eye but sometimes you just reap what you saw and the shit that Devuan receives is nothing compared with the shit that we "pro" systemd people have received over the years here, on Slashdot and other venues.

In fact I would be so bold to claim that the Devuan devs have collectively received less shit than what Lennart Poettering single-handedly have received.

[nado]

While I agree with you that the Devuan devs should not receive such shitstorms, there is a reason for it happening and that is the vast extreme amount of shitposting from the anti-systemd crowd in the first years that lead to the creation of Devuan. Yes people should not give in to an eye for an eye but sometimes you just reap what you saw and the shit that Devuan receives is nothing compared with the shit that we "pro" systemd people have received over the years here, on Slashdot and other venues.

In fact I would be so bold to claim that the Devuan devs have collectively received less shit than what Lennart Poettering single-handedly have received.

Nobody deserves to receive shit for their work, and what happened to Lennart Poettering is disgusting... regardless of what people think about the projects he was involved in. At least we know though, so we can improve the situation.

[SilverFox]

That faceless bureaucrats in Brussels dictate what you can and cannot do is just something that Russian troll factories made up to make people vote for Brexit in the UK, reality is that all such laws that govern me as a EU citizen are done by people designated by the national government that I voted for and for which every single member country have veto rights, then those laws have to pass through the EU parliament which consists of people that I voted for in the EU referendum. And last those laws have to be ratified by my national government before they even becomes something that affects me (and not all such EU mandates are ratified as well). So all that speak of bureaucrats dictating from Brussels is 100% hogwash.

Secondly, systemd does not dictate what you do with your computer more than any other piece of software that you use, and most of its behaviour can be controlled though settings. Thirdly I have never experienced any of the problems that you describe (locked out, drops to tty after 2min and then reboots) even though having been running systemd for several years on thousands of servers and hundreds of desktops, now this does not in any way, shape, or form say that you didn't experience this of course, but if you did then it was most likely due to some bug somewhere and not due to "systemd thinks it knows that's best for my system" which was you claim.

LOL, Skipping to my quote, yes it most likely is a bug, Most likely in sytemd-logind, I'll let yer know and be armed with logs if i get it again. It's funny howw on all those machine's and over all those years yout havent encountered 1 of the 6000+ closed & 1300+ open issues, Guess you must of been busy reading the gaurdian taking in the horseshit being spat out by EU bureaucrats.

To quote lennart himself "Open Source community is full of assholes, and I probably more than most others am one of their most favourite targets."

[andyprough]

To quote lennart himself "Open Source community is full of assholes, and I probably more than most others am one of their most favourite targets."

The biggest complaint about him is that he despises the users and belittles and ignores the bug reports. A quote like that shows how little he thinks of the users. Not a good look. Not even Torvalds has ever been openly anti-user. In fact, Torvalds fights the devs on behalf of the users more often than not.

[jacob]

While I agree with you that the Devuan devs should not receive such shitstorms, there is a reason for it happening and that is the vast extreme amount of shitposting from the anti-systemd crowd in the first years that lead to the creation of Devuan. Yes people should not give in to an eye for an eye but sometimes you just reap what you saw and the shit that Devuan receives is nothing compared with the shit that we "pro" systemd people have received over the years here, on Slashdot and other venues.

In fact I would be so bold to claim that the Devuan devs have collectively received less shit than what Lennart Poettering single-handedly have received.

I think Devuan receives shitstorms on a regular basis for a reason. I'm not aware of any ongoing bashing of Obarun, Slackware or any of the other non-systemd distros and forks. What sets Devuan apart is the attitude and supreme arrogance that led to its creation. Whether it's their laughable VUA Manifesto, their open letter in which they usurped the right to talk on behalf of the Debian community, the way they hoped that their then-potential fork would be a serious threat towards Debian or their generally messianic mentality that they are somehow saving the world from systemd, all that made sure they got permanently labelled as world class a$$holes. Then there is the conspicuous gap between their grandiose claims and the reality of another niche distro that barely registers in terms of user base and developer community.

[kingu]

Been using it since the first alpha. If you dislike Devuan, you dislike what Debian was. The difference is what made me switch.

[Danielsan]

The systemd service file for Redshift/Redshift-GTK has "Restart=Always" which means it's impossible by any means to shut down the first instance, or any instance of redshift. Systemd will just restart every redshift process again. It really should be "Restart=on-failure" instead.

Place a file in /etc/systemd/user/redshift-gtk.service.d/override.conf with:

[Service]
Restart=on-failure

Thanks, very nice of you!

Anyway I found it but it looks like it is not enabled, I tried to override it wit the default command but it didn't work, maybe now I understood why you suggested me to do it manually...