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Devuan 4.0 Alpha Builds Begin For Debian 11 Without Systemd

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  • #71
    Originally posted by wizard69 View Post
    What a crook. I really don’t understand this non sense around init system freedom. All Devaun is, is a waste of developer resources.
    Lol.. and first post in the topic is pro-systemd trolling. Expected nothing less.

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    • #72
      Originally posted by nado View Post
      the people who hate on Red Hat and IBM love to complain and not do anything about it. GNOME at least have the balls to change the way desktops are designed, change is not easy and we must keep moving forward. GNOME has never been better if you ask me, just look at how much it has inproved the last 4-5 years. KDE is no doubt powerful, but is simply for a very different kind of user. GNOME has sane defaults and KDE has as many options and menus as a Samsung phone. different folks, different strokes. systemd works fine too imo, but of course there is always room for improvement and change. oh i better be careful or I will be called an IBM Hat apologist fascist
      And people of who actually DO something about it and go the "other way" will get endless shower of shit from the fanatics of systemd. You just cannot "live and let live". You are like children who would endlessly bully and attack others who are not like you.

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      • #73
        Originally posted by SilverFox View Post

        Totally agree, But i fail to see where the myth is in this post?

        I'm not a systemd hater, I just dislike it. Systemd is like an Brussels bureaucrat who thinks it knows what's best for my system. When bureaucratd decides i'm not aloud to log back in after a period of inactivity, Drops me to a tty for 2 mins and then reboots! That's a bit too much power for pid#1.
        BTW love it or hate it this is a good read https://suckless.org/sucks/systemd/
        For starters, systemd does not even have any machinery to "decide" what you are describing. You have probably hit a bug (likely not even in systemd).

        And that suckless thing is FUD and myths from the first word to the last.
        Last edited by intelfx; 17 April 2021, 02:08 PM.

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        • #74
          Originally posted by aht0 View Post

          And people of who actually DO something about it and go the "other way" will get endless shower of shit from the fanatics of systemd. You just cannot "live and let live". You are like children who would endlessly bully and attack others who are not like you.
          On the contrary, it's great that people do and enjoy different things... I just don't see any point in complaining unless it's constructive; IE they are actually developers who are performing the changes they deem necessary.

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          • #75
            Originally posted by SilverFox View Post

            Totally agree, But i fail to see where the myth is in this post?
            That faceless bureaucrats in Brussels dictate what you can and cannot do is just something that Russian troll factories made up to make people vote for Brexit in the UK, reality is that all such laws that govern me as a EU citizen are done by people designated by the national government that I voted for and for which every single member country have veto rights, then those laws have to pass through the EU parliament which consists of people that I voted for in the EU referendum. And last those laws have to be ratified by my national government before they even becomes something that affects me (and not all such EU mandates are ratified as well). So all that speak of bureaucrats dictating from Brussels is 100% hogwash.

            Secondly, systemd does not dictate what you do with your computer more than any other piece of software that you use, and most of its behaviour can be controlled though settings. Thirdly I have never experienced any of the problems that you describe (locked out, drops to tty after 2min and then reboots) even though having been running systemd for several years on thousands of servers and hundreds of desktops, now this does not in any way, shape, or form say that you didn't experience this of course, but if you did then it was most likely due to some bug somewhere and not due to "systemd thinks it knows that's best for my system" which was you claim.

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            • #76
              Originally posted by aht0 View Post

              And people of who actually DO something about it and go the "other way" will get endless shower of shit from the fanatics of systemd. You just cannot "live and let live". You are like children who would endlessly bully and attack others who are not like you.
              While I agree with you that the Devuan devs should not receive such shitstorms, there is a reason for it happening and that is the vast extreme amount of shitposting from the anti-systemd crowd in the first years that lead to the creation of Devuan. Yes people should not give in to an eye for an eye but sometimes you just reap what you saw and the shit that Devuan receives is nothing compared with the shit that we "pro" systemd people have received over the years here, on Slashdot and other venues.

              In fact I would be so bold to claim that the Devuan devs have collectively received less shit than what Lennart Poettering single-handedly have received.

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              • #77
                Originally posted by F.Ultra View Post

                While I agree with you that the Devuan devs should not receive such shitstorms, there is a reason for it happening and that is the vast extreme amount of shitposting from the anti-systemd crowd in the first years that lead to the creation of Devuan. Yes people should not give in to an eye for an eye but sometimes you just reap what you saw and the shit that Devuan receives is nothing compared with the shit that we "pro" systemd people have received over the years here, on Slashdot and other venues.

                In fact I would be so bold to claim that the Devuan devs have collectively received less shit than what Lennart Poettering single-handedly have received.
                Nobody deserves to receive shit for their work, and what happened to Lennart Poettering is disgusting... regardless of what people think about the projects he was involved in. At least we know though, so we can improve the situation.

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                • #78
                  Originally posted by F.Ultra View Post

                  That faceless bureaucrats in Brussels dictate what you can and cannot do is just something that Russian troll factories made up to make people vote for Brexit in the UK, reality is that all such laws that govern me as a EU citizen are done by people designated by the national government that I voted for and for which every single member country have veto rights, then those laws have to pass through the EU parliament which consists of people that I voted for in the EU referendum. And last those laws have to be ratified by my national government before they even becomes something that affects me (and not all such EU mandates are ratified as well). So all that speak of bureaucrats dictating from Brussels is 100% hogwash.

                  Secondly, systemd does not dictate what you do with your computer more than any other piece of software that you use, and most of its behaviour can be controlled though settings. Thirdly I have never experienced any of the problems that you describe (locked out, drops to tty after 2min and then reboots) even though having been running systemd for several years on thousands of servers and hundreds of desktops, now this does not in any way, shape, or form say that you didn't experience this of course, but if you did then it was most likely due to some bug somewhere and not due to "systemd thinks it knows that's best for my system" which was you claim.
                  LOL, Skipping to my quote, yes it most likely is a bug, Most likely in sytemd-logind, I'll let yer know and be armed with logs if i get it again. It's funny howw on all those machine's and over all those years yout havent encountered 1 of the 6000+ closed & 1300+ open issues, Guess you must of been busy reading the gaurdian taking in the horseshit being spat out by EU bureaucrats.

                  To quote lennart himself "Open Source community is full of assholes, and I probably more than most others am one of their most favourite targets."

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                  • #79
                    Originally posted by SilverFox View Post
                    To quote lennart himself "Open Source community is full of assholes, and I probably more than most others am one of their most favourite targets."
                    The biggest complaint about him is that he despises the users and belittles and ignores the bug reports. A quote like that shows how little he thinks of the users. Not a good look. Not even Torvalds has ever been openly anti-user. In fact, Torvalds fights the devs on behalf of the users more often than not.

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                    • #80
                      Originally posted by F.Ultra View Post

                      While I agree with you that the Devuan devs should not receive such shitstorms, there is a reason for it happening and that is the vast extreme amount of shitposting from the anti-systemd crowd in the first years that lead to the creation of Devuan. Yes people should not give in to an eye for an eye but sometimes you just reap what you saw and the shit that Devuan receives is nothing compared with the shit that we "pro" systemd people have received over the years here, on Slashdot and other venues.

                      In fact I would be so bold to claim that the Devuan devs have collectively received less shit than what Lennart Poettering single-handedly have received.
                      I think Devuan receives shitstorms on a regular basis for a reason. I'm not aware of any ongoing bashing of Obarun, Slackware or any of the other non-systemd distros and forks. What sets Devuan apart is the attitude and supreme arrogance that led to its creation. Whether it's their laughable VUA Manifesto, their open letter in which they usurped the right to talk on behalf of the Debian community, the way they hoped that their then-potential fork would be a serious threat towards Debian or their generally messianic mentality that they are somehow saving the world from systemd, all that made sure they got permanently labelled as world class a$$holes. Then there is the conspicuous gap between their grandiose claims and the reality of another niche distro that barely registers in terms of user base and developer community.

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