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"Fedora Linux" Is The Latest Change Proposed For F35

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  • "Fedora Linux" Is The Latest Change Proposed For F35

    Phoronix: "Fedora Linux" Is The Latest Change Proposed For F35

    While Fedora 34 will be out around the end of next month, there are already change proposals being filed for Fedora 35 that will come in the autumn. One of those early changes for that next release cycle is referring to the OS as "Fedora Linux" within its OS release information...

    https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...hange-Proposal

  • #2
    Do you mean "Fedora GNU/Linux"?

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    • #3
      Wasn't it Fedora Linux from the start and than renamed to Fedora Core?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by rockiron View Post
        Do you mean "Fedora GNU/Linux"?
        I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re refering to as GNU/Linux, is in fact, GNU+Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

        Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.

        There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine’s resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU+Linux. All the so-called Linux distributions are really distributions of GNU+Linux!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post

          I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re refering to as GNU/Linux, is in fact, GNU+Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

          Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.

          There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine’s resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU+Linux. All the so-called Linux distributions are really distributions of GNU+Linux!
          You did well to specify, because many users don't know, yet people often tend to shorten with the Linux only, which is more familiar and simple, I always do it too.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post

            I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re refering to as GNU/Linux, is in fact, GNU+Linux.
            GNU = GNU/Linux - Linux + GNU Hurd

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post

              I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re refering to as GNU/Linux, is in fact, GNU+Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

              Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.

              There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine’s resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU+Linux. All the so-called Linux distributions are really distributions of GNU+Linux!
              I think it's time for a refresh of this. Given that you're calling it "GNU+Linux" and not "glibc+Linux", that means that you're judging by the overall contribution to the base system, not the ABI, which means it should at least be "systemd+GNU+Linux". (It would have been "X11+systemd+GNU+Linux", given that X.org contributed more code to a typical "GCC not installed by default" Linux install than GNU did, but I don't yet know what the SLOC or size in bytes of Mutter is, so I don't know if Wayland earns a place there.)

              (Yes, I'm showing that Stallman is being ingenuine in giving GNU a privileged place in the naming by using skewed "the OS is everything you need to self-host the OS's developing using terminal emacs and not one jot more" criteria.)
              Last edited by ssokolow; 09 March 2021, 01:57 PM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post

                I’d just like to interject for a moment.
                I'd just like to interject for a moment. Today GNU on Linux systems only makes up 4% of the operating system.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Awesomeness View Post

                  I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re refering to as GNU/Linux, is in fact, GNU+Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

                  Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.

                  There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine’s resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU+Linux. All the so-called Linux distributions are really distributions of GNU+Linux!
                  No, Richard, it's 'Linux', not 'GNU/Linux'. The most important contributions that the FSF made to Linux were the creation of the GPL and the GCC compiler. Those are fine and inspired products. GCC is a monumental achievement and has earned you, RMS, and the Free Software Foundation countless kudos and much appreciation.

                  Following are some reasons for you to mull over, including some already answered in your FAQ.

                  One guy, Linus Torvalds, used GCC to make his operating system (yes, Linux is an OS -- more on this later). He named it 'Linux' with a little help from his friends. Why doesn't he call it GNU/Linux? Because he wrote it, with more help from his friends, not you. You named your stuff, I named my stuff -- including the software I wrote using GCC -- and Linus named his stuff. The proper name is Linux because Linus Torvalds says so. Linus has spoken. Accept his authority. To do otherwise is to become a nag. You don't want to be known as a nag, do you?

                  (An operating system) != (a distribution). Linux is an operating system. By my definition, an operating system is that software which provides and limits access to hardware resources on a computer. That definition applies whereever you see Linux in use. However, Linux is usually distributed with a collection of utilities and applications to make it easily configurable as a desktop system, a server, a development box, or a graphics workstation, or whatever the user needs. In such a configuration, we have a Linux (based) distribution. Therein lies your strongest argument for the unwieldy title 'GNU/Linux' (when said bundled software is largely from the FSF). Go bug the distribution makers on that one. Take your beef to Red Hat, Mandrake, and Slackware. At least there you have an argument. Linux alone is an operating system that can be used in various applications without any GNU software whatsoever. Embedded applications come to mind as an obvious example.

                  Next, even if we limit the GNU/Linux title to the GNU-based Linux distributions, we run into another obvious problem. XFree86 may well be more important to a particular Linux installation than the sum of all the GNU contributions. More properly, shouldn't the distribution be called XFree86/Linux? Or, at a minimum, XFree86/GNU/Linux? Of course, it would be rather arbitrary to draw the line there when many other fine contributions go unlisted. Yes, I know you've heard this one before. Get used to it. You'll keep hearing it until you can cleanly counter it.

                  You seem to like the lines-of-code metric. There are many lines of GNU code in a typical Linux distribution. You seem to suggest that (more LOC) == (more important). However, I submit to you that raw LOC numbers do not directly correlate with importance. I would suggest that clock cycles spent on code is a better metric. For example, if my system spends 90% of its time executing XFree86 code, XFree86 is probably the single most important collection of code on my system. Even if I loaded ten times as many lines of useless bloatware on my system and I never excuted that bloatware, it certainly isn't more important code than XFree86. Obviously, this metric isn't perfect either, but LOC really, really sucks. Please refrain from using it ever again in supporting any argument.

                  Last, I'd like to point out that we Linux and GNU users shouldn't be fighting among ourselves over naming other people's software. But what the heck, I'm in a bad mood now. I think I'm feeling sufficiently obnoxious to make the point that GCC is so very famous and, yes, so very useful only because Linux was developed. In a show of proper respect and gratitude, shouldn't you and everyone refer to GCC as 'the Linux compiler'? Or at least, 'Linux GCC'? Seriously, where would your masterpiece be without Linux? Languishing with the HURD?

                  If there is a moral buried in this rant, maybe it is this:

                  Be grateful for your abilities and your incredible success and your considerable fame. Continue to use that success and fame for good, not evil. Also, be especially grateful for Linux' huge contribution to that success. You, RMS, the Free Software Foundation, and GNU software have reached their current high profiles largely on the back of Linux. You have changed the world. Now, go forth and don't be a nag.

                  Thanks for listening.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by blacknova View Post
                    Wasn't it Fedora Linux from the start and than renamed to Fedora Core?
                    No, it was "Red Hat Linux" since the 1990's. Then after Red Hat Linux version 9 was released in 2003, it was split into the "Red Hat Enterprise Linux" commercial product, and the "Fedora Core" community project, with the first release named FC1.
                    Last edited by torsionbar28; 09 March 2021, 02:16 PM.

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