Trisquel 9.0 Released - Powered By The Linux 4.15 Kernel

[flecht]

For my Trisquel system I have gone out of my way to pick out CPUs; GPUs; wifi; etc that work with free software

Could you write something about your hardware? I am genuinely curious.

[bridgman]

For my Trisquel system I have gone out of my way to pick out CPUs; GPUs; wifi; etc that work with free software and will be doing so for any future hardware upgrades.

Libre distros require more than "hardware that works with free software"... they also require that all closed source microcode be burned into the hardware.

The decision to support CPUs and GPUs with closed source microcode burned into the silicon and ban CPUs/GPUs with externally loaded microcode is an arbitrary one - if the policies had not been twisted around to allow *something* to comply then no GPUs and very few CPUs would be supported at all.

[skeevy420]

Libre distros require more than "hardware that works with free software"... they also require that all closed source microcode be burned into the hardware.

The decision to support CPUs and GPUs with closed source microcode burned into the silicon and ban CPUs/GPUs with externally loaded microcode is an arbitrary one - if the policies had not been twisted around to allow *something* to comply then no GPUs and very few CPUs would be supported at all.

I've always thought that was an odd line to make, myself. Don't get me wrong, I get where they're coming from -- fixed, in-place microcode is fixed function and can therefore be coded around. Externally loaded microcode isn't fixed function which can lead to all sorts of scenarios. They see evil scenarios so we are where we are.

I think a decent compromise (from AMD/Intel/Nvidia/etc) would be to release GPUs/CPUs with a burned-in microcode and have them load an updated one if it's available. If those Libre folks want to live with the buggy 1.0 firmware and not use the fixes made 5 months later, let them. A benefit is things like needing the internet and shipping proprietary blobs with live disks wouldn't be as necessary.

[chocolate]

For people criticizing libre distros:
if you can't control the impulse to write bad jokes to show a bunch of nerds how inteligant you are, either

• lower your sugar levels, start a dopamine fast and meditate;
• see a doctor.

You have to understand once and for all that these distros serve those who want to be protected by the distro itself, meaning they don't want to make sure that what they are getting from a repo is libre or not. They trust the distro, and have a reasonable amount of certainty that they are only using libre software thanks to the distro's infrastructure.

Reasons for doing so are not important, what matters is that those people have them. Hardware support is of course the users' concern, as is judging whether the mere act of acquiring firmware should make it libre as well. Of course a libre distro will not run the latest and greatest GPU from any vendor, and users know this, they're not dumb.

Nobody cares if you can't think of any reason to use a libre distro. We are talking elementary school levels of abstract thought and empathy. You lack those.

Speaking of elementary school, good to know a libre distro exists that offers an official spin preloaded with the Sugar desktop.

[PublicNuisance]

Could you write something about your hardware? I am genuinely curious.

So I have 3 setups I use with Trisquel right now. One is a Lenovo ThinkPad T61:

Intel Core2 Duo T7300 @ 2.00 GHz | 4GB DDR2-667 RAM | Nvidia Quadro NVS 140M (NV86) | Mesa 18.0.5 | Samsung 850 Evo 250GB | Trisquel 8.0 | Mate 1.12.2 | Kernel 4.15.0-118-generic | 1440*900 @ 60hz

It worked out of the box with Trisquel with the exception of wifi. I bought a wifi USB stick that works with trisquel online for it:

https://tehnoetic.com/adapters/tehnoetic-wireless-adapter-gnu-linux-libre-tet-n150

You can probably find one cheaper that may work with Trisquel but I paid the premium for a store that tested and guaranteed it.

One desktop has:

Intel G3220 | 16GB DDR3-1333 | Intel HD Graphics | Mesa 20.0.8 | Mushkin SSD 120GB | Asus Z87-A | EVGA 750 G2 | Trisquel 9.0 | Mate 1.20.0 | Kernel 4.15.0-121-generic | Acer HA220Q 1920x1080 @ 75hz | HP E221i 1920*1080 @ 60hz | Compaq Keyboard | Logitech M310

Another desktop is coming together right now that has an FX-6100 and the Gigabyte GA-970A-D3 motherboard with a GTX 760 2GB GPU. Still need a case, RAM, etc.

All parts of the motherboards work with Trisquel. My Ryzen 5 2600X in my main system works with Trisquel but I am using that on my gaming system at the moment with Manjaro/Mint as I had built that system before having the urge to go to a libre setup. I plan on getting an Intel i7-10700Ksetup next year to replace the Intel G3220 but that may change if Tigerlake hits desktop by then and works with Trisquel. When this happens I will probably sell my 5700XT and go full Trisquel.

One thing that this experience has showed me is the state of Nouveau graphics. Even trying to do some old games on Wine can be tough as Nouveau doesn't support Vulkan so that G3220 matches the performance of the GTX 760 in some games and beats it in others even when on native games. AAA games are tough. Some games the GTX 760 "wins" on such as Tomb Raider (2013), if you want to count 10 FPS on low as winning. Then again the G3220 won't launch Tomb Raider so 10 FPS beats none. Other games I have tried are F.E.A.R. where maxed out at 1080P the GTX 760 and G3220 give identical performance of 10 FPS AVG. On a 2D side scroller called Oculto the GTX 760 only ran at 12 FPS where the G3220 gave usually around 50 FPS.

[scottishduck]

How can you ensure privacy and freedom without security? 4.15 has not received an update since March 2018

[Ironmask]

For people criticizing libre distros:
if you can't control the impulse to write bad jokes to show a bunch of nerds how inteligant you are, either

• lower your sugar levels, start a dopamine fast and meditate;
• see a doctor.

You have to understand once and for all that these distros serve those who want to be protected by the distro itself, meaning they don't want to make sure that what they are getting from a repo is libre or not. They trust the distro, and have a reasonable amount of certainty that they are only using libre software thanks to the distro's infrastructure.

Reasons for doing so are not important, what matters is that those people have them. Hardware support is of course the users' concern, as is judging whether the mere act of acquiring firmware should make it libre as well. Of course a libre distro will not run the latest and greatest GPU from any vendor, and users know this, they're not dumb.

Nobody cares if you can't think of any reason to use a libre distro. We are talking elementary school levels of abstract thought and empathy. You lack those.

Speaking of elementary school, good to know a libre distro exists that offers an official spin preloaded with the Sugar desktop.

Calm down bro it's just software

[PublicNuisance]

How can you ensure privacy and freedom without security? 4.15 has not received an update since March 2018

I just installed version 4.15.0-121 the other day. Maybe it's Trisquel or Ubuntu adding the changes instead of the kernel team but the 4.15 kernel continues to get updates on Trisquel.

[skeevy420]

For people criticizing libre distros:
if you can't control the impulse to write bad jokes to show a bunch of nerds how inteligant you are, either

• lower your sugar levels, start a dopamine fast and meditate;
• see a doctor.

You have to understand once and for all that these distros serve those who want to be protected by the distro itself, meaning they don't want to make sure that what they are getting from a repo is libre or not. They trust the distro, and have a reasonable amount of certainty that they are only using libre software thanks to the distro's infrastructure.

Reasons for doing so are not important, what matters is that those people have them. Hardware support is of course the users' concern, as is judging whether the mere act of acquiring firmware should make it libre as well. Of course a libre distro will not run the latest and greatest GPU from any vendor, and users know this, they're not dumb.

Nobody cares if you can't think of any reason to use a libre distro. We are talking elementary school levels of abstract thought and empathy. You lack those.

Speaking of elementary school, good to know a libre distro exists that offers an official spin preloaded with the Sugar desktop.

Anybody truly into FOSS should just get why Libre Distributions exist.

My only thing to criticize is the stance on firmware so hardware works. I think the best compromise would be to use the external firmware that was available at the time of release and to treat that as fixed, in-place like they do with ROMs. IMHO, it simply isn't reasonable to expect any hardware manufacturer these days to be able to produce a 100% bug-free firmware on the release day...too many scenarios and setups and software combinations for them to test everything. CPUs and GPUs do too much for that to be a reasonable expectation; not to mention when vulnerabilities are found and patched.

How do Libre Distributions deal with mitigations at the hardware level if they don't allow (updated) microcodes or firmware? Are compiler level mitigations the best they offer? Maybe SELinux? Does that make them insecure by default? I'm genuinely curious. I've never considered the security implications before. I suppose it's up to the user to do it all manually. I don't necessarily agree with that outside of a manual apt-get or pacman or Choose a time between 10:30 and 4:37 for Windows to take 9 hours to update. Seriously, that shit took 9 hours the other day. I'm including me going to be and waking up to a hung Windows update ....but I went to bed two hours into the update watching a progress bar and percentage and timer all going up and up and up only to reboot into the Spinning Circle of Fuck Me Screen

[PublicNuisance]

Anybody truly into FOSS should just get why Libre Distributions exist.

My only thing to criticize is the stance on firmware so hardware works. I think the best compromise would be to use the external firmware that was available at the time of release and to treat that as fixed, in-place like they do with ROMs. IMHO, it simply isn't reasonable to expect any hardware manufacturer these days to be able to produce a 100% bug-free firmware on the release day...too many scenarios and setups and software combinations for them to test everything. CPUs and GPUs do too much for that to be a reasonable expectation; not to mention when vulnerabilities are found and patched.

How do Libre Distributions deal with mitigations at the hardware level if they don't allow (updated) microcodes or firmware? Are compiler level mitigations the best they offer? Maybe SELinux? Does that make them insecure by default? I'm genuinely curious. I've never considered the security implications before. I suppose it's up to the user to do it all manually. I don't necessarily agree with that outside of a manual apt-get or pacman or Choose a time between 10:30 and 4:37 for Windows to take 9 hours to update. Seriously, that shit took 9 hours the other day. I'm including me going to be and waking up to a hung Windows update ....but I went to bed two hours into the update watching a progress bar and percentage and timer all going up and up and up only to reboot into the Spinning Circle of Fuck Me Screen

Maybe i'm misunderstanding the issue but wouldn't it be possible for them to release updated firmware for a device that is also open source ?