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Red Hat Begins Talking Up The New RHEL Flatpak Runtime

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Smurphy View Post

    You are not wrong. But as with docker containers or VM Images. You have to update each and every library/binary for security fixes etc. all the time.
    And - flatpak now is kind of package management in a package-manager installed system.

    Sometimes, it just don't make sense to have it that way. The biggest advantage Linux systems had over Windows and Apple in the past were really the package managers who did a great Job. Now we will have to deal with more than one on the same system.

    Question: Who in here create docker or EC2 images. And who in here make sure these get security updated on a regular base.
    wow I just noticed, did you wake up from a coma (join date 2008, posts: 10)?

    Linux distros won't switch from apt or dnf to using flatpaks, it's just that flatpak solves several cases not properly covered by the native package system, for example I'm using the flatpak handbrake app because the one in the Ubuntu repo is too old, though there are many other corner cases for flatpak.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by cl333r View Post

      wow I just noticed, did you wake up from a coma (join date 2008, posts: 10)?

      Linux distros won't switch from apt or dnf to using flatpaks, it's just that flatpak solves several cases not properly covered by the native package system, for example I'm using the flatpak handbrake app because the one in the Ubuntu repo is too old, though there are many other corner cases for flatpak.
      *lol* Nope. Didn't wake up from a coma. I only didn't participate in forums in the past

      You are right on dnf/flatpacks etc.
      But as I work in the Enterprise env., I do see what they do with that... and security updates is the last thing they care about. Reason I don't like it.
      Linuxer since the early beginnings...

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      • #33
        Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
        and lacks any way to sandbox anything, and requires the package to fit the whole damn distro in it if you want to still be able to use the software in a different distro from where it was created on.

        Gee I wonder why it never cached on.
        Which is why AppImage bundles "just work" in contrast to the miriad of problems with broken flatpaks and snaps.

        And you know what?

        That was not​ the problem that solution was designed to tackle in the first place. Rather than portable and easy to use bundles that work across distributions, in the like of MacOS app bundles. And Ihaven't seen, heared or met any real person user that actually asked for runtime sandboxing - that is more like a nice to have. The big pain everyone has in Linux is having to port and bundle to the Nth degree. And that is what AppImage solves.
        Last edited by zoomblab; 08-13-2020, 06:24 AM.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by zoomblab View Post
          Which is why AppImage bundles "just work" in contrast to the miriad of problems with broken flatpaks and snaps.
          for the same distro they were created for/with.

          Really, it's basically a folder and a chroot.

          That was not​ the problem that solution was designed to tackle in the first place. Rather than portable and easy to use bundles that work across distributions, in the like of MacOS app bundles.
          which are also unsafe bullshit that relies on closed ecosystem to be "safe".

          But aside from There is no real difference between that and just making a distro-specific package (that is an archive) that contains all libs and stuff you need, so you don't need to care about where and what libraries the distro offers.

          This is what most cross-distro applications do (dropbox, TeamViewer, Anydesk, all commercial VPN client applications for VPN services like NordVPN...)

          And Ihaven't seen, heared or met any real person user that actually asked for runtime sandboxing
          most real person users don't know what they are doing.

          That said, Android does that with apps, runtime sandboxing.

          The big pain everyone has in Linux is having to port and bundle to the Nth degree. And that is what AppImage solves.
          So, can you explain why there are far more flatpaks and snaps available than there ever were Appimages?

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          • #35
            Originally posted by CochainComplex View Post
            Bottomline I tend to like Flatpak as alternative to native - especially if some dependency chain can not be meet But usually I prefer native.
            Couldn't agree more!

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            • #36
              Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
              , but it's not exactly as user-friendly as I would have liked it (I would like something like Android permissions with a GUI and switches).
              I guess Flatseal is new to you.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Alexmitter View Post

                I guess Flatseal is new to you.
                Indeed. Does it allow me to limit storage access (as many apps are simply accessing the whole "home" folder) too?
                I'll try it later.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Smurphy View Post
                  But as with docker containers or VM Images. You have to update each and every library/binary for security fixes etc. all the time.
                  But someone else is doing it for you for every library in the shared runtimes. My Flatpak apps currently use org,gnome.Platform/3.36 and org.kde.Platform/5.12 and both have both received multiple fixes. The runtimes seem to get rebuilt by professionals who know what they're doing, and I've yet to experience any breakage caused by a minor bump. That's true for the package wranglers for my distro (Fedora) as well.

                  The best feature of Flatpaks for me is when a developer wants to know if my bug occurs in git master of their program, I can install its nightly flatpak from a development flatpakrepo and check, without disturbing my normal version or having to build from source. https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Nightly and https://community.kde.org/Guidelines_and_HOWTOs/Flatpak

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