Fedora Developers Restart Talk Over Using Nano As The Default Text Editor

[vsteel]

For those who say new users don't come to Linux are wrong. Places like Linux Tech Tips are talking about it more and more and telling people they should try it. How are new users getting into the terminal, they are following a guide somewhere and editing a config file. They are not programming or doing something really complex, they need to change one line.

People need to move on from the 70s. I really don't understand the thoughts of "we have to keep it hard because it's better." when things have moved on.

[uid313]

Great idea!

GNU nano is very nice and easy to use. Vi is terrible, I have no idea how to use it, and I've used Linux since forever.

[rene]

Vi is not an option because its interface is complete trash that requires reading documentation for, while nano works as any normal text editor does.

I can accept Vi only on embedded systems where there is only busybox's Vi, for a distro on a normal PC/Server/bigger embedded there is NO reason to use it.

why? Vim is a monster of bloat, ...?

[JustinTurdeau]

I just tried dte and struggled quitting it (ALT+x, "quit -f" - just why?).
Debian

That's already changed in the master branch. Pressing Ctrl+q with unsaved changes shows a "quit without saving?" dialog now.

[vegabook]

I, too, am vulnerable to Stockholm syndrome. I should probably post about how great the experience is and how dumb everyone else is for not enjoying it with me. And then rub sandpaper on my face and shudder in ecstasy as the pain penetrates deep into my soul. The blood is just a physical manifestation of my enlightenment.


Well, then, it's a good thing that the learning curve for nano is almost non-existent. For 90% of cases, they'll only need to know how to save and exit, which is always displayed on-screen. Requiring experts to select and install the editor they actually want (e.g. perpetual vim vs emacs flamewar) seems like a more sensible decision than forcing new users to struggle using a tool that most of them will hate and avoid like the plague (without knowing that they can banish it). Literally the people most likely to struggle with vim are the ones who wouldn't know how to change the editor. Why pointlessly make it more difficult. Plus, if you're so skilled that you vim in your sleep should be using a setup script (or ansible/puppet/chef) anyway and it won't add much work.

It's also a good thing that a linux distro install isn't a life-altering decision about the next decade of your software life, and instead is just a package manager with a minimal default selection of packages. This isn't some "teach a man to fish" life lesson we're foisting on people here for their own good. We just want to make it simple for the majority of the user base.

Insisting that people use a more difficult tool for simple tasks when a simple one is available (and they're not required to combine tools) is literally elitist patronizing bullshit.


Yet another good reason to not force users to use an overly complicated tool for basic text editing. People who need more will know it and find it. The default should either be a minimal editor relying on arrow keys and a few (visible) key combinations, or an editor selection tool. Anything else is just catering to somebody's bias and/or ego.

Nano?? Pah! Far too complicated for the hordes of corporate drones who suddenly want to use the Linux shell.

no no no no no this is 2020! We need to make things eeezzyy:



There fixed it for you

[lucrus]

Average Joe does not come on Linux to begin with.

Agreed.

It's safe to assume people on Linux are more techie than average and will appreciate a better terminal experience by default as they learn their ropes and eventually become experts.

Agreed too, but what is a "better terminal experience" for a techie who is curious to learn a new system?

In my first years of Linux terminal I've been struggling with Jed and nano: both are text editors that try to be more user friendly than vim, but both do have their own learning curve and none is as intuitive as a mouse pointer and a toolbar with icons, which is not possible in the terminal.

For example exiting nano is not more intuitive than vim for a newbie, because newbies do not know that "^X" means Ctrl + X, and they will likely try to type the ^ character followed by uppercase X or something. So, in the end, a techie newbie will have to resort to some documentation regardless of what editor is the default.

When I finally decided to grasp the nettle and learn vim basics, I regretted I hadn't done that earlier.

[r_a_trip]

Fedora should switch over. Just make it nano unapologetically. We are talking about editing config files, which is the first necessity of the default text editor. This "it must be vi(m)" is just gatekeeping. It's erecting barriers to make command line work only accessible to the "initiated". It's high time this priesthood of exclusionary undesirables is discarded once and for all. We don't need the old incantations anymore. We have simple, secular tools. Yeah, that means you are no longer a hierophant, but this is a good thing for the masses who don't need smoke and mirrors, but a straightforward way of managing their systems.

[reba]

nano is far from ideal for new users. dte has saner default key bindings and a bunch of extra features that you can learn piece-by-piece, without making the core editor any harder to use. Both vi and emacs are practically impenetrable to noobs and nano is so simplistic that almost everyone outgrows it eventually.

I just tried dte and struggled quitting it (ALT+x, "quit -f" - just why?).
For me it's in the same bin as vim.

Distro default matter here. And a hint: nano /etc/nanorc

Same here:

## Automatically hard-wrap the current line when it becomes overlong.
# set breaklonglines

Debian

[Hibbelharry]

I always remove nano from every machine I administer, and have done so for two decades. I don't want to risk its automatic hard line wrapping corrupting configuration files, and having to use "nano -w" every time gets old really fast (not to mention that other programs which call $EDITOR won't add the "-w" for me).

Distro default matter here. And a hint: nano /etc/nanorc

[mo0n_sniper]

When I started to use Linux I loved nano and hated vi. Now I still love nano but use vi because no matter what server I'm on: Linux, old Linux, Aix, Solaris I know I have vi installed.

I think it would be best to have nano as default for fedora but also provide vim. The people who use vim know to change the default, and the people who are beginners would have an easier time with nano.