Devuan 3.0 "Beowulf" Reaches Beta For Debian 10 Without Systemd

[phoronix]

Phoronix: Devuan 3.0 "Beowulf" Reaches Beta For Debian 10 Without Systemd

Devuan 3.0 "Beowulf" has finally reached beta as a spin of Debian 10 "Buster" created without a dependence on systemd...

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Devuan-3.0-Beta-Released

[Britoid]

ensure init system freedom

Didn't realise Debian didn't allow you to uninstall systemd...


oh wait.

[uid313]

Does this work with everything?
GNOME works? KDE works?
Apache, lighttpd, nginx, MariaDB, PostgreSQL works?

[waxhead]

Not to be confused with Beowulf clusters I suppose.... On the other hand I tend to like systemd more and more... Even the homed thing that I hate does not sound as bad one I learned what it was all about

[jKicker]

Does this work with everything?
GNOME works? KDE works?
Apache, lighttpd, nginx, MariaDB, PostgreSQL works?

If it doesn't, then I think there is a serious issue that systemd brought. You must still be able to use a nginx, apache, gnome etc as regular "binaries" so any other service can control it. They are still expected to be used like that on embedded (yocto, buildroot,...).
Gnome should still use D-BUS for communication for other services for example and logging would just go to journal if you set it up like that (systemd-journald takes over regular syslog logs as well on distributions) so your application doesn't change.

I would also be interested if some apps are linking with some systemd libraries that depend on systemd, I would find that strange (unless they are really extending systemd) so please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm ignoring systemd-network here or similar modules that make it mandatory to have systemd.

[Britoid]

If it doesn't, then I think there is a serious issue that systemd brought. You must still be able to use a nginx, apache, gnome etc as regular "binaries" so any other service can control it. They are still expected to be used like that on embedded (yocto, buildroot,...).
Gnome should still use D-BUS for communication for other services for example and logging would just go to journal if you set it up like that (systemd-journald takes over regular syslog logs as well on distributions) so your application doesn't change.

I would also be interested if some apps are linking with some systemd libraries that depend on systemd, I would find that strange (unless they are really extending systemd) so please correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm ignoring systemd-network here or similar modules that make it mandatory to have systemd.

systemd units make it easy to see how a service needs to be started.

[Antartica]

Didn't realise Debian didn't allow you to uninstall systemd...

oh wait.

There are really strange dependencies on systemd in debian 10 "buster". I've recently upgraded from a debian 9 "stretch" without systemd (that machine is using sysvinit with a barebones window manager, ratpoison), and the upgrade uninstalled the intel video drivers because it had sysvinit-core on "hold".

In order to fix that I've had to repackage the intel video driver so that it doesn't have dependencies (specifically
xserver-xorg-video-intel as well as xserver-xorg-core and xserver-xorg-input-libinput). Not the cleanest of the fixes, but enough for now.

And then I tried to use virt-manager and noticed that the upgrade broke it too!

[Britoid]

There are really strange dependencies on systemd in debian 10 "buster". I've recently upgraded from a debian 9 "stretch" without systemd (that machine is using sysvinit with a barebones window manager, ratpoison), and the upgrade uninstalled the intel video drivers because it had sysvinit-core on "hold".

In order to fix that I've had to repackage the intel video driver so that it doesn't have dependencies (specifically
xserver-xorg-video-intel as well as xserver-xorg-core and xserver-xorg-input-libinput). Not the cleanest of the fixes, but enough for now.

And then I tried to use virt-manager and noticed that the upgrade broke it too!

Ah, no doubt this will all get blamed on systemd of course.

[andyprough]

Ah, no doubt this will all get blamed on systemd of course.

It would appear to be a Debian problem. For example, MX allows you to switch back and forth from systemd at will, without breakage. And MX accesses Debian's own repositories directly. The systemd shims that are in use by MX and antiX are easily accessible to Debian. There's no good excuse for breaking stuff all over the place.

[Britoid]

It would appear to be a Debian problem. For example, MX allows you to switch back and forth from systemd at will, without breakage. And MX accesses Debian's own repositories directly. The systemd shims that are in use by MX and antiX are easily accessible to Debian. There's no good excuse for breaking stuff all over the place.

Then someone should of tested Debian 10 before it was released. If no one who relies on that functionality actually tested it, then it's their own fault.