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Fedora's 32-bit ARM Xfce Image Demoted While Fedora Workstation AArch64 Gets Promoted

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  • starshipeleven
    replied
    Originally posted by 144Hz View Post
    Don’t underestimate the flexibility of Gnome Shell extensions. They can range from useful to super experimental designs.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=FHNXxTo9dz4
    Yeah, when a GNOME update does not break them horribly. Let's not forget that this is a GUI, it HAS to work reliably at all times.

    Leave a comment:


  • starshipeleven
    replied
    Originally posted by Britoid View Post
    I wouldn't call Fedora and OpenSUSE commercial distros. Both are run by communities, although sponsored by commercial companies.
    That's a load of crap and they fully know it, that's why they keep stuff separated like that. Debian does not care. Arch does not care. Their derivatives don't either.

    OpenWrt? Never cared, they had exfat kernel driver available since it was leaked in their official repositories, and so on.

    Leave a comment:


  • skeevy420
    replied
    Originally posted by Britoid View Post

    If you want to use GNOME Shell with a Windows-like workflow, then yes its going to be unusable because it doesn't use that workflow. GNOME Shell proudly doesn't use that workflow.

    Regarding Red Shift, this is built into the compositors/desktops now, so it isn't needed anymore.
    In Plasma, Red Shift is from an optional package called plasma5-applets-redshift-control and it isn't installed by default on Manjaro, maybe Tumbleweed too (been a couple of months so I don't remember). So while it's available and built-in, it isn't included by default/OOTB.

    What if we like XFCE or OS9 interfaces? Because Gnome proudly doesn't do those either

    Leave a comment:


  • skeevy420
    replied
    Originally posted by AdamW View Post

    I mean...obviously having to test it is a bias, but a lot of the stuff in Fedora's KDE spin is stuff that is just really not *necessary* at all. Stuff like...I don't know how many there are right now (at least two), but it's shipped three different package managers on the live image in the past. Because, I dunno, choice! or something? So that means we get to test not one but three package managers. And block the release if any one of them is broken. Fedora KDE ships Konqueror, Firefox, Krusader *and* Dolphin, all on the live image. It ships a 'TNEF file viewer', which means if you're trying to do the job properly you need to have a TNEF file lying around somewhere and know what it's supposed to look like. It ships QDbusViewer in the frickin' app menus, for some reason. It ships an Automatic Mouse Clicker?

    The KDE control panel has controls for *every goddamn thing in the world*, even things that make absolutely no sense whatsoever. I think they finally fixed this, but it's still my favourite example: at one point it had a setting for the xkb geometry. The *only* thing that actually affects is how xkb draws a little illustration of a keyboard layout if you ask it to...but KDE didn't actually *use* xkb to draw little illustrations of keyboards, it did it itself, and it ignored that setting! So it was literally entirely useless. The general KDE approach to making a configuration GUI is 'take literally every possible setting from the underlying config file and expose it as flexibly as possible'. This is a freaking nightmare for testing. Keyboard config is still the best example of this - there is a checkbox in the KDE keyboard config thing marked "Maintain key compatibility with old Solaris keycodes". Is this *really* a thing the GUI needs to expose? There are *eight separate choices* for "Numeric keypad Delete behavior". These are all things that someone, somewhere in the world needs to set (or needed to set sometime in 2003, sometimes), I guess, but do we really need a checkbox for every damn one? In the main KDE control center?

    Anyway, yeah. This is why we maybe don't want to be on the hook for absolutely everything in KDE working any more.
    The way you describe it, it sounds like Fedora ships an unnecessarily bloated KDE spin by including crap like an Automatic Mouse Clicker. Total WTF on that one. Dolphin and Firefox are all that is necessary in that first paragraph. Anything else is an add it if you need it program since, IMHO, both Dolphin and Firefox are good programs and get the job done.

    There are 16 Caps Lock key options too. One can argue that 16 Caps Lock options aren't necessary unless you're like me and actually use one. I use the additional Backspace setting and have both Shifts at set to activate Caps Lock. And yes, even though I think 14 people in the world, tops, use the setting, Solaris keycode compatibility is a setting a GUI should expose. The alternatives of "edit a text file" or "cryptic terminal commands" is beyond most people...heck...today I watched first-hand how Chrome plugins are beyond the average person...but the GUI is needed because those alternatives are why Linux has that hard to use stereotype. It's either that or become like Gnome and just don't have that many options...and make people install options through a browser and hope it all jives together...at least it's an option, but still...

    That said, it wouldn't be a bad idea for Nate to run a few polls on some of those more obscure settings to find out what is and isn't used or needed.

    I do think that the KDE control panel is a straight up cluster. Like the Shortcuts menu under Workspace. It should be a tab between Layouts and Advanced on the Keyboard Menu under Input Devices. Then you have distros like Manjaro that add their own stuff to it...and I'll go off on a rant so I'll just say it's crap like shortcuts to crap that exists in the damn control panel, some doubled up efforts (some are arguable better than the KDE defaults, others worse), and their kernel installer tool...maybe that systemd entry too...but all the crap Manjaro adds makes the control panel more clustered up and annoying.

    IMHO, the trick with KDE/Plasma isn't adding all the KDE and Plasma applications, it's knowing what not to add while adding all of their suggested or optional dependencies of what gets used.

    Leave a comment:


  • 144Hz
    replied
    Don’t underestimate the flexibility of Gnome Shell extensions. They can range from useful to super experimental designs.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=FHNXxTo9dz4

    Leave a comment:


  • angrypie
    replied
    Originally posted by Spooktra View Post
    It's sad to see what Fedora has become. Back when it was just Red Hat, it was fantastic, probably the best distro, especially with the Ximian Desktop, those were the days. Then when Fedora was announced, I remember reading an article on a Linux review site, where the author said something to the effect of "I just hope Fedora isn't meant as a perpetually beta test bed for main Red Hat releases".

    The man was incredibly prescient.
    It's funny how you all say "beta testing for free" is a bad thing when you get everything back in return, for free. I mean, Red Hat isn't making it proprietary or something, you can get a carbon copy of RHEL as CentOS if you don't care about commercial support.

    What do you get by beta-testing Windows 10? Automatic reinstalls of Candy Crush Saga and privacy settings reset? And you still have to pay for it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Britoid
    replied
    Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post

    I didn't even want to bring up the point, more of a personal opinion point, that Gnome is almost unusable to me without a few plugins. I can manage, but it isn't what I'd call an enjoyable experience. Add a few plugins, tweak a few new settings, and I'm a relatively happy camper. At that point I might as well be using Plasma since it has the look, feel, and settings I think a desktop needs all OOTB (or at least available...like some distributions not including red shift/anit-blue OOTB..whatever TF that term is called).
    If you want to use GNOME Shell with a Windows-like workflow, then yes its going to be unusable because it doesn't use that workflow. GNOME Shell proudly doesn't use that workflow.

    Regarding Red Shift, this is built into the compositors/desktops now, so it isn't needed anymore.

    Leave a comment:


  • AdamW
    replied
    Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post
    And that last part about KDE makes me sad. Good KDE coverage is the most important aspect of a distribution to me and why SUSE Tumbleweed and Manjaro KDE have become my go-to distributions...only I don't care for the way SUSE does things and Manjaro is pushing crap too fast for their own good. \

    One can argue that Gnome shipping less stuff and being easier to test initially as a bad thing for the long term -- by that I mean that including less software means the end-user will have to install more software to get a complete system which then adds more complexity and issues for bug fixers, quality assurance, etc -- Pay a little bit more now or pay a lot more later.
    I mean...obviously having to test it is a bias, but a lot of the stuff in Fedora's KDE spin is stuff that is just really not *necessary* at all. Stuff like...I don't know how many there are right now (at least two), but it's shipped three different package managers on the live image in the past. Because, I dunno, choice! or something? So that means we get to test not one but three package managers. And block the release if any one of them is broken. Fedora KDE ships Konqueror, Firefox, Krusader *and* Dolphin, all on the live image. It ships a 'TNEF file viewer', which means if you're trying to do the job properly you need to have a TNEF file lying around somewhere and know what it's supposed to look like. It ships QDbusViewer in the frickin' app menus, for some reason. It ships an Automatic Mouse Clicker?

    The KDE control panel has controls for *every goddamn thing in the world*, even things that make absolutely no sense whatsoever. I think they finally fixed this, but it's still my favourite example: at one point it had a setting for the xkb geometry. The *only* thing that actually affects is how xkb draws a little illustration of a keyboard layout if you ask it to...but KDE didn't actually *use* xkb to draw little illustrations of keyboards, it did it itself, and it ignored that setting! So it was literally entirely useless. The general KDE approach to making a configuration GUI is 'take literally every possible setting from the underlying config file and expose it as flexibly as possible'. This is a freaking nightmare for testing. Keyboard config is still the best example of this - there is a checkbox in the KDE keyboard config thing marked "Maintain key compatibility with old Solaris keycodes". Is this *really* a thing the GUI needs to expose? There are *eight separate choices* for "Numeric keypad Delete behavior". These are all things that someone, somewhere in the world needs to set (or needed to set sometime in 2003, sometimes), I guess, but do we really need a checkbox for every damn one? In the main KDE control center?

    Anyway, yeah. This is why we maybe don't want to be on the hook for absolutely everything in KDE working any more.

    Leave a comment:


  • tildearrow
    replied
    Originally posted by NotMine999 View Post

    Considering there is no post by "144Hz" above that of "tildearrow"...

    I wonder if this is an open admission that there is a moderator present in these forums ... other than Michael and perhaps his wife.
    There was a post above mine.

    Leave a comment:


  • skeevy420
    replied
    Originally posted by Britoid View Post

    Less extensions more apps is actually something that comes up in the GNOME-sphere a lot.
    I didn't even want to bring up the point, more of a personal opinion point, that Gnome is almost unusable to me without a few plugins. I can manage, but it isn't what I'd call an enjoyable experience. Add a few plugins, tweak a few new settings, and I'm a relatively happy camper. At that point I might as well be using Plasma since it has the look, feel, and settings I think a desktop needs all OOTB (or at least available...like some distributions not including red shift/anit-blue OOTB..whatever TF that term is called).

    Leave a comment:

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