Fedora's Scientific & Audio/Music Spins Could Be On Their Last Leg

[wizard69]

Tex Live is a software distribution containing thousands of packages that are "pinned" (to use apt terminology) once a year and aren't updated even if there's serious security / functionality / performance issues. So, if that's not a candidate for a VM specialized spin, I don't know what is.

Texlive updates regularly. At least it always has on Mac, even if the updates required a manual request. On Fedora Tex updates are seen throughout the distros life.

[finalzone]

wizard69
The idea of spins is for users looking to get their favourite applications installed by default for their needs without searching deeper. The works are done by contributors who maintain or co-maintain themselves RPM packages.

[eidolon]

The Fedora Project makes distinctions between "labs", "spins", and "remixes", which may be convoluted for some people, for those that are even aware that any of these options exist.

Labs offer curated OOTB setups for niche foci (Astronomy, Design Suite, Games, Jam, Python Classroom, Robotics Suite, Scientific, and Security Lab). I would imagine the appeal of these is convenience for those who use them (not sure how many Fedora users that includes), but perhaps these users could be served just as well by documentation directing them to the appropriate packages/package groups (listed in the respective Kickstart files). Also, as Labs must abide by Fedora Project licensing guidelines, this may affect the degree to which they can tailor their offerings (e.g. the Games lab can't include Steam). I noticed that it isn't unusual for a few of these labs to miss a Fedora release (e.g. there isn't a Games lab release for Fedora 31, there wasn't a Robotics Suite lab release for Fedora 30, there wasn't a Python Classroom lab release for Fedora 29, etc.), so there may be occasional maintainership issues.

Spins are available for users who don't want to use GNOME (i.e. Fedora Workstation) or the network installer. Spins are available for Cinnamon, KDE Plasma, LXDE, LXQt, MATE, Sugar, and Xfce. The Fedora Project could just offer their network installer and nothing else (i.e. no Fedora Workstation and no Fedora Spins) and let users install a desktop environment as they please. However, my guess is that most users prefer that these pre-installed offerings continue. An argument could be made to not only get rid of spins but also only package GNOME for Fedora, since downstream Red Hat only supports GNOME as of RHEL 8, but I feel many Fedora users wouldn't be in favor of that.

Unlike Labs and Spins, Remixes are not associated with the Fedora Project, and therefore don't have to abide by its licensing guidelines (e.g. they can ship Steam, VLC, etc). Like many distro remixes in general, the majority of Fedora remixes end up being discontinued, often due to lack of resources.

[wizard69]

wizard69
The idea of spins is for users looking to get their favourite applications installed by default for their needs without searching deeper. The works are done by contributors who maintain or co-maintain themselves RPM packages.

Yes I understand and frankly I don’t see any reasoning that makes sense over simply downloading what is needed after a workstation install. All these spins do is thin out the developer base effectively wasting resources.

[wizard69]

The Fedora Project makes distinctions between "labs", "spins", and "remixes", which may be convoluted for some people, for those that are even aware that any of these options exist.

Labs offer curated OOTB setups for niche foci (Astronomy, Design Suite, Games, Jam, Python Classroom, Robotics Suite, Scientific, and Security Lab). I would imagine the appeal of these is convenience for those who use them (not sure how many Fedora users that includes), but perhaps these users could be served just as well by documentation directing them to the appropriate packages/package groups (listed in the respective Kickstart files). Also, as Labs must abide by Fedora Project licensing guidelines, this may affect the degree to which they can tailor their offerings (e.g. the Games lab can't include Steam). I noticed that it isn't unusual for a few of these labs to miss a Fedora release (e.g. there isn't a Games lab release for Fedora 31, there wasn't a Robotics Suite lab release for Fedora 30, there wasn't an Astronomy lab release for Fedora 29, etc.), so there may be occasional maintainership issues.

Spins are available for users who don't want to use GNOME (i.e. Fedora Workstation) or the network installer. Spins are available for Cinnamon, KDE Plasma, LXDE, LXQt, MATE, Sugar, and Xfce. The Fedora Project could just offer their network installer and nothing else (i.e. no Fedora Workstation and no Fedora Spins) and let users install a desktop environment as they please. However, my guess is that most users prefer that these pre-installed offerings continue. An argument could be made to not only get rid of spins but also only package GNOME for Fedora, since downstream Red Hat only supports GNOME as of RHEL 8, but I feel many Fedora users wouldn't be in favor of that.

Unlike Labs and Spins, Remixes are not associated with the Fedora Project, and therefore don't have to abide by its licensing guidelines (e.g. they can ship Steam, VLC, etc). Like many distro remixes in general, the majority of Fedora remixes end up being discontinued, often due to lack of resources.

Even the spins don’t make a lot of sense to me. At logon, via GDM, I can select the DE of my choosing. This can be very useful for a number of reasons but is great for the developer, or users that need to run a certain app tied to a DE. Even with GNome I get 3 different variants depending upon need.

now I understand wasted disk space and other issues with installing random software. However selection of the DE could easily be done at install time. In fact I See this as preferable because it can minimize the effort required to maintain all of these spins. This would be preferable even if it requires a base install of Fedora followed by a DE install once the system is up and running.

[eidolon]

However selection of the DE could easily be done at install time. In fact I See this as preferable because it can minimize the effort required to maintain all of these spins.

Then also do away with Fedora Workstation as well to lessen the maintenance burden and only offer the network installer and the "everything" installer and let the DE be selected at install time.