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Debian Developers Take To Voting Over Init System Diversity

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  • oiaohm
    replied
    Originally posted by 144Hz View Post
    Why even argue about this? Debian is going to vote systemd only.
    https://www.debian.org/vote/2019/vote_002
    Really would not be too sure than that.

    Proposal D, Proposal H and Proposal E sort out their differences and come down to 1 option they will have more support than Proposal F that is systemd only.

    There is kind of a horrible fragmentation in the init freedom camp of debian that is really undermining their position.

    Leave a comment:


  • kgonzales
    replied
    There are three groups within Open Source:

    1) Those who actively create and maintain open source software
    2) Those who spend money to hire open source developers or to hire companies who produce open source software
    3) Those who are none of the above so your opinion does not matter

    If you do not like systemd but you are neither creating/maintaining a new init systems or hiring people/companies to create/maintain a new init system, your opinion simply doesn’t matter. You can talk all day long but if you want to affect change you should shift yourself into category #1 or #2.

    Oh and the whole “old timers know best” horse shit needs to stop. Those old timers come from backgrounds where Unix systems were massive proprietary boxes that had to be multi-user because hundreds of people had to use a single system an organization can afford. Now Linux resides in IOT devices and tiny containers, the same methods don’t apply. The old timers, like the ones in every space, will assume all their collected wisdom is relevant. It is not. And I say this as a 20+ year tech “old timer” who worked with even more old timer.

    Finally, in case you are wondering, I’m a blend of a little bit of #1 and more of #2.

    Leave a comment:


  • 144Hz
    replied
    Why even argue about this? Debian is going to vote systemd only.

    Leave a comment:


  • microcode
    replied
    Originally posted by Candy View Post

    This is so retarded!

    First something has been thrown inside our throaths with dubious arguments. Then - once it made it inside the throaths - we (so the audience that got basicly overrun by this - also needs to raise up "valid" arguments, why this and that is our concern.

    If you can't deal with shit thrown towards you, then you should avoid playing with fire.

    It sounds more like "we stick that bolt inside your ass and now you complain why we should remove that bolt again..." better ask yourself why you sticked that bolt in peoples arse first....
    Nobody did anything to you. You can install the old version of the thing you got for free. Nobody is obligated to provide perpetual support for your weird legacy software, and you have given them to good reason to do so.

    Leave a comment:


  • danmcgrew
    replied
    Originally posted by tildearrow View Post
    Choice 9: Focus on systemd and leave the rest to Devuan

    Michael Larabel works very hard at producing this amazing publication. So hard that perhaps he doesn't have time to make certain that the people he employs(?) work as hard as he does. [do 'Honorary Editors' do any real editorial work? Do they get paid for 'Honorary editing'?]

    One would have thought that, to any rational individual who understands the English language, native speaker or not, the very first option in Michael Larabel's frontispiece...

    "...After public comments, the eight options for voting by Debian developers include:
    Choice 1: F: Focus on systemd
    Choice 2: B: Systemd but we support exploring alternatives
    Choice 3: A: Support for multiple init systems is Important
    Choice 4: D: Support non-systemd systems, without blocking progress
    Choice 5: H: Support portability, without blocking progress
    Choice 6: E: Support for multiple init systems is Required
    Choice 7: G: Support portability and multiple implementations
    Choice 8: Further Discussion
    The call for voting was announced a short time ago on the mailing list..."

    ...totally and completely covered the fantastic, and totally overlooked by Michael Larabel, New Option Number Nine as offered in Post #2 of this article.

    But, of course, there's that all-important function--which happens so frequently--of pointing out to the world--Michael Larabel's occasional typographical error. And the need to increase the number of posts; let's face facts: three thousand, one hundred and fifty (3150) is just simply is not an acceptable number of posts for someone who holds such an important position.

    Leave a comment:


  • Candy
    replied
    Originally posted by microcode View Post
    No matter how reasonable systemd is, somebody will be derailing conversations to complain about it in the abstract, without providing any actual concerns that could be addressed.
    This is so retarded!

    First something has been thrown inside our throaths with dubious arguments. Then - once it made it inside the throaths - we (so the audience that got basicly overrun by this - also needs to raise up "valid" arguments, why this and that is our concern.

    If you can't deal with shit thrown towards you, then you should avoid playing with fire.

    It sounds more like "we stick that bolt inside your ass and now you complain why we should remove that bolt again..." better ask yourself why you sticked that bolt in peoples arse first....

    Leave a comment:


  • microcode
    replied
    Originally posted by phoronix_anon View Post
    Do you think systemd should be the only init available for containers? Do you want to see people stop using Debian-based images to build containers?
    Why even bother using an init system in most containers? How many independent services are you ever initializing?

    Leave a comment:


  • microcode
    replied
    Originally posted by tuxd3v View Post
    Can you please clarify that statement?
    It takes effort to make and maintain more than one implementation of these systemd-based features. Others are welcome to do that, but core maintainers run systemd, and so do most of their users.

    Leave a comment:


  • microcode
    replied
    Originally posted by AnonymousCoward View Post
    Must be because of your custom twiddling, because debian jessie beta did not even finish booting on my machine, so much that for the first time (and I am here since potato) I reverted from a beta to an older stable version of debian.
    I did my testing on Wheezy, it worked straight out of the upstream git repo, I forget where, but I also got a bunch of premade cross-distro unit files, so all but one service was immediately booting without sysvcompat.

    I don't know what they screwed up for Jessie on your machine, I had already switched to Fedora and was waiting for Arch to switch to systemd, by the time Jessie was entering stable.

    Originally posted by AnonymousCoward View Post
    Then you load up ubuntu on an otherwise decent lenovo t410, it's slower booting than mxlinux (sysvinit booting with some systemd components for compatibility sake), it is slow overall, its bigger footprint yields less apps because for some reason they run snaps instead of debs, the usb installer has lost functionality reverting to a simple dd, while mxlinux has a great usb installer and great live tools making debian-live pale in comparison... but at least ubuntu shuts down faster. Which is much appreciated because shutting down is a relief. BTW Alpine linux on servers is lightning fast. Voidlinux manages to do everything fast using runit.
    That has nothing to do with the init system, and everything to do with mainstream desktop distributions just having a LOT of software enabled by default.

    Originally posted by AnonymousCoward View Post
    If that were the case, debian would sail peacefully and not have meetings about returning to... be a UNIVERSAL operating system. Probably it is happening what conspiracy theorists (about systemd being a way for redhat to turn linux into a windows-like admin revenue stream) feared.
    No matter how reasonable systemd is, somebody will be derailing conversations to complain about it in the abstract, without providing any actual concerns that could be addressed.

    Leave a comment:


  • ZeroPointEnergy
    replied
    So many angry systemd fanboys in this thread

    Leave a comment:

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