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  • #21
    This post is interesting:

    Originally posted by ThoreauHD

    I've noticed many more people are installing Debian these days, and I have no idea what's driving them to do so, because they are technical morons.

    Not helpful, when no driver is included because it's "non-free". So literally nothing works except one atheros wifi chip from a decade ago. It's quite annoying.

    I'm wondering where the Debian publicity is coming from, because these morons are bugs splattering on a windshield, and everyone else is forced to clean up the mess. There needs to be better disclosure about Debian's hardware support out of the box.
    ... it's the kind of post that can be the catalyst for a fight.

    I think it's a healthy practise to try and stay "meta" when reading on tech forums. IE stay at least one level above the playing field of the combative commenters and my own mind & emotions. This allows me to more easily notice when someone is setting up strawmen, trolling or using the subject matter purely as a delivery mechanism for their true payload: an emotional or aggressive outburst / attack. Had the person in the comment above simply gave their opinion / preference, it would not create the playing field for a fight. However they opted to insult people with a different opinion / preference to themselves, thus likely putting some readers into a defensive stance.

    I notice this same pattern over and over on many forums:
    1. Someone attacks THING or attacks the people that like or identify with THING.
    2. People who like or identify with THING feel insulted and have an internal impulse to defend themselves.
    3. BEGIN FIGHT! [THING ATTACKER] Vs. [THING DEFENDER]!
    4. Energy is lost.
    5. Happy vibes turn to sad vibes.
    I was one of those people (feeling insulted) for a time, but at some point I noticed I was unnecessarily identifying with THINGS that are not me. Now, if I get an emotional response to something bad written about a THING or even about something bad written directly about users of said THING, my first instinct is meta: I observe the playing field and my thoughts & emotions and wonder what I have unwisely identified with (e.g. am I personally identified with being a "Debian user"?! Would it not be better to just enjoy using Debian as opposed to seeing Debian as being a part of what actually makes me?). This dis-identification process removes the impulse to defend myself and the fight (internal or external) never happens; no energy is lost and any happy emotional state I was previously experiencing is preserved.

    Takes practise to go meta like that, but eventually it becomes automatic and forums become much more pleasant.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
      Also Windows "works".
      Not for me.
      it simply breaks itself with forced updates.
      Last edited by LightBit; 11-17-2019, 09:11 AM.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by LightBit View Post
        Not for me.
        it simply breaks itself with forced updates.
        Debian is pretty capable of breaking itself with updates too, they are just not forced.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
          Debian is pretty capable of breaking itself with updates too, they are just not forced.
          Well I have tried many Linux distributions and Debian is the most reliable, universal, has many packages, and is easy to upgrade. It never really broke on my computers (not even sid). It is really easy to maintain without reinstalling every half year, but it is boring.
          Last edited by LightBit; 11-17-2019, 12:49 PM.

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          • #25
            Originally posted by 144Hz View Post
            starshipeleven tildearrow Vistaus Gnome-shell is mentioned in the news article -> On-topic. Please stop your off-topic gossips.
            Just because there's a small reference doesn't mean you need to make a big deal out of it.

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            • #26
              Vistaus First of all it IS a big deal. Maintaining software is hard and under appreciated.

              Second. If you don’t want discuss maintenance hardship, then move on. It really is tiresome to see off-topic commenters trying to pick a fight. Won’t happen.

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              • #27
                Something which still doesn't work is the GUI installer if you use both BIOS boot AND own an AMD APU. (Ryzen 2200G here) Got to go text installer AND choose install vga=0 to get a readable screen for install.
                Last edited by George99; 11-17-2019, 02:50 PM.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by LightBit View Post
                  Well I have tried many Linux distributions and Debian is the most reliable, universal, has many packages, and is easy to upgrade. It never really broke on my computers (not even sid). It is really easy to maintain without reinstalling every half year, but it is boring.
                  I have lost count of how many times I had to deal with stupidity in their package manager or dependencies, and it required manual intervention calling dpkg with arcane commandline options. Some times it even tried to delete my GUI

                  I migrated to OpenSUSE years ago, only systems left on Debian are some hacked Kirkwood-SoC NAS devices where I cannot run OpenSUSE.

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by 144Hz View Post
                    Vistaus First of all it IS a big deal. Maintaining software is hard and under appreciated.

                    Second. If you don’t want discuss maintenance hardship, then move on. It really is tiresome to see off-topic commenters trying to pick a fight. Won’t happen.
                    The one starting the offtopic here is you, please don't blame everyone telling you are offtopic

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                      I have lost count of how many times I had to deal with stupidity in their package manager or dependencies, and it required manual intervention calling dpkg with arcane commandline options. Some times it even tried to delete my GUI

                      I migrated to OpenSUSE years ago, only systems left on Debian are some hacked Kirkwood-SoC NAS devices where I cannot run OpenSUSE.
                      My main complain about package manager is its speed (really slow).
                      OpenSUSE has great and fast package management, but it is lacking packages. I had to resort to user packages for basic stuff. I never tried full system upgrade on OpenSUSE.
                      OpenSUSE would probably be my second choice or maybe Fedora (but I hate SELinux).
                      I quite liked Arch Linux, but it requires a bit more time and since the removed installer I'm really not interested in installing with retyping commands from manual.

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