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Debian 10.0 "Buster" Now Available - Powered By Linux 4.19, GNOME + Wayland

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  • #51
    Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post
    snip
    It's funny that you say Vista was the point she wanted to switch -- it was for me, too. Back then, I tried Ubuntu ....6.06, I think it was? If it wasn't that, it wasn't anything later than 7-something. Things were much more difficult back then!

    I needed more ability to slim down the OS for performance on my old hardware than Windows Vista allowed, and XP both wasn't much better, had driver support issues on the newest hardware I had available, and had too many security issues for my comfort.

    Thanks for the Manjaro suggestion, I'll look into it once I can finally get these Debian Buster images downloaded.
    Last edited by mulenmar; 07-07-2019, 02:37 PM.

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    • #52
      Been running Buster (along XFCE) since its feature-freeze on a Dell XPS 13 9380 laptop and I'm very happy with it; everything just works.

      Now on to upgrading my ˜20 server VMs...

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      • #53
        Originally posted by andyprough View Post

        "I have tried package x on sid and it didn't work" - well, sid is unstable. So that outcome isn't a complete shock. When I need bleeding edge stuff, I use openSUSE or Parabola (Arch). Good luck to you though, sounds like you are doing important work. Sorry about my snarky comment earlier about not being able to run Debian. It is clearly not the best tool for every task.
        That's why I've been trying to tone back my comments. Every OS has its pros and cons, things it excels at better than others, things it sucks at, different compromises made...

        Yeah, this Debian release doesn't really suite my needs but that doesn't make it bad, just not the tool I need in my box for my current uses.

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        • #54
          Originally posted by Vistaus View Post

          That's not the only reason to need newer versions of software. Even on older hardware, if you need (to do) something that requires a newer version of something, you're out of luck with Debian Stable. So stop throwing the "hardware upgrade" argument already!



          EVERY? Really? So Red Hat is lying to us when they say they support releases 10 years?
          Yes. It's a conspiracy with IBM, Microsoft, and the Illuminati to bring upon the downfall of the Linux desktop. You should really try my distribution based on Debian Testing with a super custom AMD kernel and the XFCE desktop. I ran the Phoronix benchmark on my OS and Red Hat and mine plays Tomb Raider 693% faster.

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          • #55
            Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post

            That's why I've been trying to tone back my comments. Every OS has its pros and cons, things it excels at better than others, things it sucks at, different compromises made...

            Yeah, this Debian release doesn't really suite my needs but that doesn't make it bad, just not the tool I need in my box for my current uses.
            Yeah, I need to stop jumping on people for saying "distro x is garbage, doesn't work at all", or "package y is completely broken". Lot of people exaggerate the negative in their comments. It's just the way of online communication, has been since the early days of AOL dial-up chat rooms.

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            • #56
              Originally posted by JoshuaAshton View Post

              > And what exactly makes software outdated?! You can't compare a program to milk that you need to throw away after a certain date.
              I can and will make that comparison. Software is updated for a reason. [cont. after next quote...]

              > you obviously value stability less than shiny
              No, I value having up to date software that has fixes and better support -- of which won't reach Debian until some dumb neckbeard thinks that because something is over 6 months old it is now ""stable.""
              Old != Stable -- they don't even test this shit, they just think that because it's old it must be good.

              > Debian is not a toy - it's for getting real work done!
              I mean, they're launching with 3/4ths of a year old kernel for Christ's sake, the latest MinGW on there uses GCC 6 FROM 2016!
              I literally *cannot* work with this given my work entails a) graphics and b) something compiled with MinGW.

              What do you define as ""real work""?
              Yes, software is updated for a reason - it does not mean it is a valid reason for the user. Sometimes software is updated with features, sometimes it is bugfixes of a feature, but if you don't use that feature you don't need that bugfix, if you don't need a new feature then why are you complaining?! Software always have security issues and bugs - I would much rather have a slightly older program that has been well tested and where most users don't encounter bugs than a new fresh version that may crash due to not being tested. I especially want this if I don't need any of the new shiny features. Newer version of software does not always mean better or more stable - ideally it should, but in the real world things are bit more complex, you might want to try out the real world sometime.

              Debian's QA process works a bit different. It has nothing to do with being 6 months old. If you look at the Debian testing repos which are essentially a rolling release you will find that most software is rather close to upstream. If you learn what happens to a package for it to migrate to the testing repo, you might be surprised how "solid" it actually must be. New != stable - new is seldom tested, you think that because it's new it must be good. Again I invite you to try out the real world from time to time.

              If you think that the 4.19 kernel which was released 22. October 2018 is 3/4ths of a year (9 months) old then you are really not having a good understanding of how tings work. The latest version of the 4.19 kernel is according to kernel.org (as of writing this) from 2019-07-03 and Debian buster is based on 4.19.28-2 (2019-03-15) which is not that long ago. Ever heard about long term support?!

              Quite frankly your thinking sounds much like a kid running Windows with just aiming to have things working fast without having an understanding of how programs work in general. This is why we have hello world programs today that is hundreds of kilobytes. This "Windows mentality" also is very dangerous as it is a complete disregard for the work behind what we use daily. Debian is FREE - e.g. you can download it , install it and make useful work of it without having to pay anything. Most hardware works out of the box as well because someone wrote FREE drivers and/or tools for it. This is possible because of projects like Debian , Ubuntu is possible because of Debian and so is a shitload of other Distros that use Debian as a base.

              So pretty please with sugar on top - think before you talk and don't spread false information. Debian stable *is* tested quite well!

              Oh and by the way.... real work is anything but installing a bunch of stuff every day and reinstalling your OS every third month.
              Last edited by waxhead; 07-07-2019, 08:18 PM.

              http://www.dirtcellar.net

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              • #57
                Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post

                When you need things like LLVM 9 for AMDGPU optimizations, or, holy shit, Mesa newer than 18.3...ROFL...Debian is going to suck for gaming.
                Some things MIGHT be backportable to buster-backports (if it is possible).

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                • #58
                  Originally posted by DeepDayze View Post

                  Some things MIGHT be backportable to buster-backports (if it is possible).
                  If SteamOS stays with Debian then hopefully they'll keep up with the gaming related programs and libraries.

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                  • #59
                    Originally posted by imout0 View Post
                    buuusteeeerrrrr!!!!

                    Beammmmmmm!!!
                    are you okaayy? Buuusstaaahhhhh.....wolf!!

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                    • #60
                      Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post

                      When you need things like LLVM 9 for AMDGPU optimizations, or, holy shit, Mesa newer than 18.3...ROFL...Debian is going to suck for gaming.
                      I have LLVM 9 and Mesa 19.1 on my installation of Buster. What's your problem?

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