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Debian 10.0 "Buster" Lining Up To Release In Early July

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  • Debian 10.0 "Buster" Lining Up To Release In Early July

    Phoronix: Debian 10.0 "Buster" Lining Up To Release In Early July

    We now have a tentative release date for the big Debian 10 "Buster" release...

    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...r-Release-Date

  • starshipeleven
    replied
    Originally posted by Danielsan View Post
    It seems I am not the only crazy that thinks these things...
    You are crazy only because you want to have Debian make a breaking change.

    Guix has its own distro already https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=guixsd

    Leave a comment:


  • Danielsan
    replied
    It seems I am not the only crazy that thinks these things...

    by Vagrant Cascadian At: DebConf18 https://debconf18.debconf.org/talks/9... GNU Guix is a build system... or is it a package manager... or an operating system? Regardless of what angle you're looking

    Leave a comment:


  • starshipeleven
    replied
    Originally posted by Danielsan View Post
    There is no need to redesign the package manager when we already have modern and elegant package manager like Nix or Guix that can help Debian to improve their package system.
    So you want Debian to become NixOS now?

    Oh my god the rape train has no brakes.

    What about just fixing what does not work and have it work like the package managers in other distros. You know, those that are not Nix or Guix and are still traditional package managers and don't have these issues.

    Leave a comment:


  • starshipeleven
    replied
    Originally posted by tildearrow View Post
    Who thought it was a good idea to distribute a program without the headers, and the headers in a separate -dev package?!?!
    People that don't need to waste space with development stuff? You know, Linux distros aren't only used in your PC but in devices where you don't want to waste space with bullshit (servers for example, as you will be doing backups and running VMs and whatever, and also midrange embedded devices)

    But that's not all:
    Yes. That's one of the reasons I migrated to OpenSUSE.

    Leave a comment:


  • Danielsan
    replied
    The deb system suffers a lot the age, when it was designed there wasn't so many alternatives nor the high-speed internet and infrastructures like git:

    If you want to build an entire [operating] system, how exactly do you divide it up and allow people who have probably never met to work on everything individually, yet take all of the subcomponents and put them back together and make a complete system?

    The way that Linux systems were distributed at the time was very much oriented toward distribution on diskettes. So you would download all these diskette images, and you'd install Linux that way. And we decided to take a different approach, because it fit well with the distributed development idea.

    We decided that Debian would be based on packages. So every sub-component of the system would be contained in its own package. And the package would know how to integrate itself into the system. When you installed it, it would know how to remove itself, and know how to upgrade itself.

    Debian would be based on the idea of a package, and all these people who wanted to work on it could then take responsibility for all these different packages. And we would define standards and rules that would allow a package from any source to be able to fit into the system well. So that when you take all these packages and you install them, you get an entire system that looks like it's been hand-crafted by a single, closely-knit team. And in fact that's not at all how it was put together.

    https://arstechnica.com/information-...rdock-himself/
    There is no need to redesign the package manager when we already have modern and elegant package manager like Nix or Guix that can help Debian to improve their package system.

    Leave a comment:


  • tildearrow
    replied
    Originally posted by Sonadow View Post
    Their packaging system still sucks balls though.Who thought it was a great idea to break up all the *-dev packages into tiny individual components like qt5SOMETHING1-dev, qt5SOMETHING2-dev...qt5SOMETHING99-dev instead of just simply qt5-dev? Now I have to hunt down individual packages.
    I totally agree with you. They have the worst package format in the universe.
    However, I do have to tell you that the package split exists to keep API/ABI compatibility (GoboLinux also does this), especially for libraries which break oh-so-freaking-many times like ICU and protobuf.
    But after all, the -dev packages are stupid. Who thought it was a good idea to distribute a program without the headers, and the headers in a separate -dev package?!?! Seriously, I mean, one day I raged so hard I typed sudo apt install \*-dev in a poor attempt to install every single -dev package and get rid of this problem...

    But that's not all:

    - You can't install local packages with APT. You have to use dpkg, which doesn't do any sort of dependency resolution. The next statement describes one problem arising from this fact.
    - The package manager basically tells you that you can't screw up once. When you install a broken package (e.g. missing dependencies), your package manager places the package in a "to-install" list, but since the package is broken, you can't install ANYTHING unless you "fix" the system, and sometimes doing that can result in the package manager wiping the whole system (this occurred to me once... I was installing some packages from KXStudio and at one point I almost deleted like 1000+ packages due to a simple break). pacman is superior in this regard. Not only you're able to install local packages within the package manager, but also it doesn't break. If you try to install a broken package, pacman just stops and doesn't screw up. No need to cleanup or anything like that.
    - Creating packages... is a headache. Under Arch Linux all you have to do is create a PKGBUILD, type makepkg, and boom, your package's baked. However, under Debian, you have to create like a hundred files (like a changelog, a set of rules, package details, licenses, patches, manpages, files to install (IS THIS EVEN NECESSARY?!), library symbols (what the HELL), etc.), use a thousand tools, and then you finally have a package. It's like autotools vs. CMake/Meson. Autotools requires you to write like 10 files and run like 20 commands to get a Makefile. CMake/Meson? You just write 1 file, create a build dir, type cmake .. or meson .. and done, Makefile get!
    Last edited by tildearrow; 06-13-2019, 03:39 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • starshipeleven
    replied
    Originally posted by Danielsan View Post
    I don't really care what you think.
    If you really did, you wouldn't be still here quoting me...

    Leave a comment:


  • Danielsan
    replied
    Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
    [...]
    Still continues to quote me dude? Take it easy and leave your childish comments for someone else, there is no reason for your "mirror climbing", I don't really care what you think.

    Leave a comment:


  • starshipeleven
    replied
    Originally posted by tildearrow View Post
    There already is one. It's called common sense.
    "common sense" is sadly not really "common", he is technically right, rules are required.

    A true CoC should be able to deal with fakers and SJW, that "are offended" by anyone having different opinions, or by people pointing out the reality to them.

    Leave a comment:

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