Gentoo Gets GNOME 3.30 Running Without Systemd

[Michael_S]

Raka555,
I have no right to tell the Debian, Arch, or other distribution maintainers what to do. So they're free to adopt systemd as they want, it's their choice and not ours.

GNOME is literally running because someone has forked a Systemd daemon (logind -> elogind), so I find hard to understand wtf are you even talking about.

?? But the point is that the Gentoo developers did have the freedom to do that. That's exactly the point, systemd isn't taking freedom away.

[PeeJay]

Unix is where Linux came from, but Linux has moved on considerably since then. We should be trying to build an awesome OS, not blindly following some philosophy while ignoring any developments that conflict with said philosophy.

[discordian]

Like you say it takes a ton of work to run without systemd. Gentoo is putting in that ton of work and should be lauded for that.

And systemd are just trying to increase that ton of work the whole time ...

Yes, people are adopting systemd voluntarily, because they don't recognize/care about the thread systemd brings.

All those threads systemd brings, makes my system boot alot faster. Happy I am.

[cybertraveler]

Raka555,
I have no right to tell the Debian, Arch, or other distribution maintainers what to do. So they're free to adopt systemd as they want, it's their choice and not ours.

I didn't get any sense that Raka555 was promoting that we tell or force distros what to do. Raka is just stating what they feel is the logical consequence of the path the systemd project has taken.

Think of what happens if I own a long strip of road leading up to my business and i choose to install very large speed bumps / breakers all down that road. No one is forced to drive over those speed bumps, but there will be a whole series of predictable effects. Some of them are:

• The speed of the traffic will likely be slowed.
• Break pad wear will increase as some people will accelerate and break between bumps.
• Low-to-the-ground, sports car owners will either not visit the business, will park at the end of the road and walk or will use a different vehicle when visiting my business.
• Some 4x4 owners will drive at the same speed as before the bumps were installed. They will be largely unaffected.

Actions have consequences.

The approach that the systemd project has taken is having and will continue to have consequences. Raka described some of them (as they see it).

It's down to us as individuals to assess the consequences and decide which software to run, which software to build and which software to contribute to. As such, posts like Raka's should be seen as useful. It's a perspective to consider.

I think we can often learn from listening to the perspective of others; especially if their perspective is very different from ours.

[Britoid]

Unix is where Linux came from, but Linux has moved on considerably since then. We should be trying to build an awesome OS, not blindly following some philosophy while ignoring any developments that conflict with said philosophy.

If the Unix philosophies were amazing Unix wouldn't be dead.

[rastersoft]

Oh my... what's so bad about systemd that has a team of professionals actually spending time and resources on this?

Systemd is specific to Linux, so it is good to be able to run Gnome Shell on other systems, like BSD or, like #3, an old Alpha machine.

[Raka555]

Unix is where Linux came from, but Linux has moved on considerably since then. We should be trying to build an awesome OS, not blindly following some philosophy while ignoring any developments that conflict with said philosophy.

I don't care too much about the philosophy.
I care about mountains being put in the way that hinder the use of some software.

[Raka555]

It's pretty damned arrogant, that's what it is. I don't like Gnome anyway, but that pollution was the last nail in its coffin for me.

I don't like Systemd... I used it for a while in a few distros but recently went back to Slackware.

Give Alpine Linux a go as well: https://alpinelinux.org/

It is Linux "done right" IMO.

[skeevy420]

I don't care too much about the philosophy.
I care about mountains being put in the way that hinder the use of some software.

That's exactly how I feel about GTK3 and CSD.

systemd has been a good thing for me overall. Standardized configurations, custom scripts are still supported, and a lot of its side projects bring interesting and useful features. Probably the best thing it did was light a fire in the init department and now we have a ton of good choices. It's great that Gentoo is doing the work to make systemd optional and a choice.

I'm also not going to hate on people or distros that choose systemd over something else. If you are a distribution maintainer, why wouldn't you want to use a standardization system that's in active development that you can contribute towards versus developing yet another competing standard? That XKCD comic is so damn relevant for so many things it isn't funny.


Yeah, I realize I contradict myself here, but I see systemd as a way to standardize Linux which is something that we need. systemd is to the OS like busybox is to the shell. Choice is great, but too many choices can be a bit ridiculous, especially so if there isn't a standardized way of doing things making Linux the Wild West.

Developing a toolset that is designed as both one tool and individual tools versus using different tools from different sources and making them all work together really isn't that bad of an idea. Whether one agrees with how systemd is doing that it is a different matter.

[starshipeleven]

If Unix philosophies weren't amazing you wouldn't have macOS and Linux.

Linux is not Unix. MacOS is not following ONE of the Unix principles but it is still the only OS left certified Unix (apart from AIX maybe)