Gentoo Gets GNOME 3.30 Running Without Systemd

[jacob]

the concept of an init system is inherently flawed

Pretty much this. It seems to me that systemd bashers always argue in terms of its pros and cons as an init system, whereas its advocates want to drop the very concept of an init system.

[jamdox]

I don't mind systemd per se, but in the things I've dealt with, there are some warts with some "scope creep" parts like resolved, ntpd and gummiboot. And the dead horse of binary journal encodings. I haven't tried s6, but I'm not sure that as an "init" it really beats systemd in terms of performance or the simplicity of writing services.

I did try systemd-less gnome on void linux, and it seemed to stutter all the time and have very bad performance. I don't know what that was about, but I'd be curious to know how performance is on Gentoo.

At the end of the day, systemd is free software.

[ssokolow]

...that allows you to write buggy services. IBM software is hiding things like microsoft softyware does. You are not not the master of your computer when using IBM, microsoft, apple, android etc software.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Enjoy getting yelled at by your boss when the company loses money because a crash in your in-house order-processing system brought things to a halt in the middle of the night, local time, and it took too long for your phone to wake you up.

Only an idiot assumes their program is bulletproof enough to not require lifecycle management. That's why, before systemd, people developed bolt-on alternatives to launching services via initscripts, such as runit.

(Also, lifecycle management isn't just about restarting crashed services. It's also about starting infrequently-used services on-demand and then shutting them down to save resources when the demand goes away.)

[mattst88]

I'm glad they did.

I've been spending some of my hobby project time bringing an old Alpha PWS 500a back to life (upgraded to USB2, a Radeon 5400, and a few other non-original pieces, like my old SB AWE64 Gold).

I've got gentoo booted/rebuilt so that I've at least got a working console and a bunch of the system rebuilt. I'm currently working on getting Gnome Shell running on this machine, but it's not possible to use systemd on the Alpha architecture due to some missing kernel functionality. With elogind and the systemd-less Gnome it's at least potentially possible for me to get this working, as long as I'm willing to wait for things to build... and wait, and wait... Hmm, maybe I should try again to get that cross compiler functional on my Ryzen 2700 system.

I run systemd on my Alphas. If there's a problem, please file a (Gentoo) bug and let me know.

Also, feel free to join us in #gentoo-alpha on Freenode.

[lucrus]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

I agree with everything you've written, but you are feeding a troll.

[abott]

Water of resources. Fix systemd instead, morons.


They don't have to so what I say. I just say it in hopes they realize how stupid they are wasting their time.

[discordian]

It seems pretty crazy that a desktop environment would ever be dependent on an init system. Nice work Gentoo team.

It does not depend on systemd (-core), it depends on some functionality of systemd-logind. Gentoo took systemd-logind and made that standalone as elogind, so they:

• Did not reduce any dependencies
• Use a tool from systemd, adopted to be build standalone.

Its pretty much the same with udev, which is nowadays managed in the systemd source-tree, and which has a separate project eudev that took it out again.

[-MacNuke-]

Gentoo took systemd-logind and made that standalone as elogind, so they:

Quiet! Don't tell them that they still run code from Poettering.

[Britoid]

Quiet! Don't tell them that they still run code from Poettering.

Sssssh!

I wonder how this is going to fair when GNOME complete their plans to use systemd --user to manage the gnome session.

[Britoid]

...that allows you to write buggy services. IBM software is hiding things like microsoft softyware does. You are not not the master of your computer when using IBM, microsoft, apple, android etc software.

Please, can we just have one conversation where if the topic has anything remotely to do with Red Hat, IBM or Microsoft we don't have this?