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Fedora 29 Might Hide The GRUB Boot Menu & It's Causing Lots Of Debate

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  • Britoid
    replied
    Why is GRUB still around?

    It's looks and feels so ancient, especially when you compare it to the pre-boot envrionments that Windows uses.

    I look forward to when efistubs/efibootloaders are default. Additionally, GRUB ruins the framebuffer on EFI systems, again something that Windows does well.

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  • Vistaus
    replied
    Originally posted by kevmif View Post
    I reduce the timeout - but I do not want it hidden by default. Yet another thing I will have to go an change manually in addition to removing rhgb.

    A screen that says press ESC / F8 to display the grub2 menu is still going to increase boot time by a second or two so why not just keep it how it is? Fedora isn't Ubuntu and shouldn't strive to be. We don't need to obfuscate every little thing from users.
    Maybe they should add it as an advanced option to the installer. Hide by default, but remove the checkmark in the advanced options to show it by default. That way, you would still need to change the setting in order to show it but at least it would just be 2 clicks during installation rather than editing a text file after installation.

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  • Vistaus
    replied
    Originally posted by tildearrow View Post
    There should be a compromise. Make the GRUB menu hidden, but should appear in case the system fails to boot, and be still easily toggleable via an option in the Control Center

    I have a question. Do the majority of users (including Windows users) know what a kernel is?

    Typo:
    A lot of computer users don't even know what a web browser is (even someone my own age, which is <30, told me today that she had no idea what web browsers were!), so I highly doubt they know what a kernel is.

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  • Charlie68
    replied
    I think the default setting is not very important, but it is important to have the tool to change the setting. That's why I love openSUSE!

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  • xiando
    replied
    Originally posted by gbcox View Post
    "For users wanting to still see the GRUB menu by default, they could still edit the /etc/default/grub. The plan is outlined on this Wiki page. ". Well, it's actually not that easy to change grub is it? You've left out an important step and when people need to make the change and can't because of incomplete documentation that causes unneeded stress.
    It's pretty easy to change grub's configuration on Fedora, just edit /etc/default/grub and add any special OS in /etc/grub.d/ if you need to and run grub2-mkconfig -o /boot/efi/EFI/fedora/grub.cfg

    People who don't know what grub or a kernel is are obviously not going to do this or figure out how to do it.

    I'm on the fence on this one, I would like to keep the grub menu. And I can, it's just an additional thing I'll have to customize after installation. That's annoying but I do see the other side of the argument: If you don't know what a kernel is then you don't really need the option of choosing one when you boot. But even those people will benefit from being able to run a working kernel if they end up with one that doesn't - and Fedora isn't exactly a stable distribution.

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  • gbcox
    replied
    "For users wanting to still see the GRUB menu by default, they could still edit the /etc/default/grub. The plan is outlined on this Wiki page. ". Well, it's actually not that easy to change grub is it? You've left out an important step and when people need to make the change and can't because of incomplete documentation that causes unneeded stress.

    Leave a comment:


  • johanb
    replied
    I haven't used any bootloader at all for years and that has served me well.

    EFISTUB+efibootmgr is the shit!

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  • M@GOid
    replied
    Originally posted by kevmif View Post
    We don't need to obfuscate every little thing from users.
    That is not the Gnome philosophy, at all...

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  • Sniperfox47
    replied
    I don't understand why "user friendly" distros like Fedora and Ubuntu even still use GRUB...

    I can see GRUB or Systemdboot on more "enthusiast" distros like arch and suse but if your intention is to make things easier, faster, and prettier for your end users why not something like rEFInd?

    Can have a timeout including "any" key bypass. Shows in graphics mode with configurable layout and icons. Can load EFI tools in addition to just the installed OSes. Has static configuration that doesn't need to be redone on updates, including on a per-OS basis for boot configuration. Can support whatever filesystems you want via EFI drivers. And best of all doesn't need to be aware ahead of time what OSes there are to boot because it just scans for EFI executables, including UEFI flash drives, external hard drives, etc.

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  • Venemo
    replied
    I actually agree with this decision. I do not care what the bootloader and the init process says, just want my computer to boot as fast as possible. Unless, of course, there is a problem, in which case I of course want to see that. And the currently suggested solution will allow for both. While if you always want to see it, all you will have to do is edit a few lines in the config file, which is I think manageable.

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